Re: Defining Paganism
My apologies - I didn't mean to be short, but I was rushing on my way to do something else. No offense taken!
Yes, that's correct.
You will get different answers to this from other pantheists, so understand that I am speaking only for myself .
The answer is "no." the universe just is. It isn't "higher" in any sense. The universe is. Higher and lower all all part of the universe. It's a conglomeration of all it's parts, the way they interact, and the results of those interactions. Nothing more - no higher or lower than anything else. That actually is a fundamental part of my philosophical/religious outlook - "As it is above, so it is below."
Oh, don't worry. I am what I am! But I'm still wondering at your specific reason for finding it (to use a less loaded word) "inappropriate" to call myself pagan? If it's an opinion, I get that. But if it's a well considered intellectual position, then there must be reasons...
I think that what you mean to say is that I am using a descriptor that fails to give you the information about my beliefs that you would want - if we were literally talking about our beliefs.
However, it works for me when I use it, so there is something useful in it for me, even if it doesn't work for you.
1. When I want to talk about my religion (which I rarely do outside of here), it sets the opening stage for a continuing discussion.
2. When I use it as a search term, I find some of the kinds of things I am interested in. Moreso than when I use terms like Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Native American, etc.
3. I find many more people with whom I share some common interests when I go to "Pagan Forum," far more than when I go to "Christian Forum," "Atheist Forum," etc.
The term means something to people, and serves a purpose for them. That's why they use it.
I don't care to attempt to impose the meaning I like on the term - it's futile anyway. I'll use it the way it is used by those who habitually use the word because it works for the purposes I (and others who use the term) use it for.
Originally posted by Valhalla
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If you're a pantheist, doesn't that mean you view the universe as deity?
So in a sense you do believe in a higher power, no?
The answer is "no." the universe just is. It isn't "higher" in any sense. The universe is. Higher and lower all all part of the universe. It's a conglomeration of all it's parts, the way they interact, and the results of those interactions. Nothing more - no higher or lower than anything else. That actually is a fundamental part of my philosophical/religious outlook - "As it is above, so it is below."
If you believe there is no higher power then I find it a little silly to use the term "Pagan" to describe yourself personally, but I'm not trying to insult you or begrudge you the right to do so. It just doesn't make sense *to me*.
While I won't call it silly and I'm guilty of doing much worse quite deliberately, you are using a descriptor that fails to actually describe anything.
However, it works for me when I use it, so there is something useful in it for me, even if it doesn't work for you.
1. When I want to talk about my religion (which I rarely do outside of here), it sets the opening stage for a continuing discussion.
2. When I use it as a search term, I find some of the kinds of things I am interested in. Moreso than when I use terms like Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Native American, etc.
3. I find many more people with whom I share some common interests when I go to "Pagan Forum," far more than when I go to "Christian Forum," "Atheist Forum," etc.
The term means something to people, and serves a purpose for them. That's why they use it.
I don't care to attempt to impose the meaning I like on the term - it's futile anyway. I'll use it the way it is used by those who habitually use the word because it works for the purposes I (and others who use the term) use it for.
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