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**Dez** · 02 Sep 2011, 18:34

Re: Grumpy Kids

Does he have an acceptable outlet for aggressive feelings? Sometimes it really helps if you say things like, "Are you angry right now? You can't hit me, but you can go hit that pillow over there."

It also might help to make sure that there's a consistent punishment for hitting...same thing every time, no matter what....

**shadow cat** · 02 Sep 2011, 21:11

Re: Grumpy Kids

I tried the pillow thing before, but he didn't seem to grasp that concept for some reason. Maybe now that he's older it will work.

It's not like he's super violent or anything - usually raising his fist with a growl, rarely lashing out. I'm just so tired of the constant growling . . . usually for no reason at all -- someone asking him a question, or a TV show coming on that he doesn't like -- RARRRRRGRRRRRR. I don't understand where the grumpiness and anger is coming from, or if it's just because he thinks he can get away with it.

**thalassa** · 03 Sep 2011, 04:30

Re: Grumpy Kids

We have a bit of a multi-pronged assault for the anger/frustration management with Chickadee.
We've tried to teach her to deal with her feelings before she gets mad--meditation (there are some good guided imagery things for kids--we have sort of mashed the "magic garden" and "worry tree" meditations into our "Imagination Story Time" before bed), plus there are some good books (we have "Hands are not for Hitting" and "I Feel Angry"...and I want to order "Angry Octopus, which looks pretty good) and (while I try to minimize TV) kids programs that we've found helpful (Kai-lan has a couple episodes that talk about handling anger, which is nice, because you can download the episodes from Amazon or watch them streaming for ~$2-3). So, we sort of have...well..."Mad Drills"--if _______ happens, and you get angry, what should you do? And then we practice it. BREATHE IN, Sway Side to Side, BREATHE OUT, etc.

The second part is diffusing the anger in a situation where you suspect it will happen before it hits...encourage him to talk about how he feels as its happening if you can't avoid the situation ("use your words"), or come up with a game or something to distract if you can (we've effectively driven half-way across the country 6 or 7 times in the last 8 months, so this is one we have some practice with).

The third part is dealing with the anger when it comes...as early as possible if you can catch it. Depending on how much its escalated, sometimes we can just go into breathe and sway mode...sometimes we can't, so we have some constructed running and growling in place (lol, we actually growl on purpose)...saying something like "breathe in and collect all your mad like a dragon making a fire ball" (and we scrunch into a ball sort of) and then start running in place and when you are going as fast as you can, jump up and roar it to the sky and "let your fire ball go into the clouds and explode like a firework", then we breath and sway, etc...

I *think* its working, because the last time Chickadee got mad, she sort of huffed over to an empty spot in the room and said "I'm going to breathe and sway now mom" like a teenager grumping over doing homework or chores.

ETA: Kailan episodes---------The Ladybug Festival, Season 1/Episode 1--about calming down; Kailan's Playhouse, which is about using your words and not hitting (Season 2, Ep 15), and Beach Day, Season 1/Ep 13 discussing feeling calm

**shadow cat** · 03 Sep 2011, 19:27

Re: Grumpy Kids

Originally posted by thalassa View Post

The second part is diffusing the anger in a situation where you suspect it will happen before it hits...
The third part is dealing with the anger when it comes...as early as possible if you can catch it. etc...

This is our problem. His anger and frustration comes from nothing. 90% of the time, nobody has any idea why he really gets mad. One minute he'll be playing and laughing with someone, the next minute he'll be seething . . . with no real deviation from what he was doing before.

Alas, I will try your suggestions.

Tried the pillow thing again today . . . yeah. He made it very clear that he did NOT want to hit that pillow.

I did get him to use a "big boy voice" and a "nice voice" several times, though.

**Dez** · 03 Sep 2011, 19:35

Re: Grumpy Kids

How is his vocabulary when it comes to emotions?

If he doesn't really have the words he needs to express what's going on (sad, angry, frustrated, embarrassed, annoyed, etc) it might all be coming out as anger.

**thalassa** · 03 Sep 2011, 19:42

Re: Grumpy Kids

*hugs* chicky! You just have to be consistent, it never works the first time...or second, third, maybe by tenth.

If you want to talk to DR and I, we are in chat now!

**shadow cat** · 03 Sep 2011, 19:43

Re: Grumpy Kids

I think he understands all the emotions you mentioned. He's ridiculously smart. He often says that he's "mad and grumpy" or "not in a good mood right now".

He's just very . . . hateful. But like I said before, he can turn on the charm and be the sweetest little thing in the world.

Maybe I'm just worrying too much about it. I've just never heard of a kid doing what he does. And his grandmother saying "neither of my boys ever acted like that!" doesn't help. *insert eye roll smiley here*

**Dez** · 03 Sep 2011, 19:58

Re: Grumpy Kids

Oh, gosh...I hate it when grandparents do that, LOL.

Hmm...Is it more likely to happen during certain times of day? My kids can get unmanageable really fast if they're hungry, or something's affected their sleep...I don't always catch it unless I think about it, either. Any recent big changes?

**shadow cat** · 03 Sep 2011, 20:18

Re: Grumpy Kids

All day long at any given time, LOL.

He did start preschool in August . . . after never being in daycare or anything like that. So that's a HUGE rocking of his world.

Before this, he seemed to get grumpy during transitions, such as someone coming home. His teachers at school have told me he has the most problems with transition time - and also interacting with the other kids. But I guess that will come in time.

I would consider him a relatively nervous and insecure little guy . . . yet I don't see why he has any reason to be. He had several phases of severe separation anxiety, he has a hat and pair of shoes that he won't let out of his sight . . . literally the only time he takes them off is in the tub, and sometimes he gets nervous and asks if he can put them back on when he's done.

Also, we just got over what I call the Incident of 2011. We went out to eat, and as we were leaving, I accidentally knocked a flower vase of water on him. It went all over his shorts and shoes, and he started screaming. I frantically tried to mop up the water and get it off him as everyone in the restaurant stared. I didn't get on to him at all . . . I just changed him and put him in his carseat and told him that his behavior was unacceptable. After this, oh wow. He did not want to get ANYTHING on him. He didn't even want to drink at one point, because water would get on his lips, and he wouldn't cry because tears would get on his face. *wipes sweat from brow just thinking about it*

I've noticed that sometimes when he gets nervous, he'll revert back to that. For example, the past couple days when he cried, he started whining that he needed to wipe the tears off his face.

I think I've totally gone off on a ramble-fest here . . . but there has definitely been more frustration and aggression lately.

**Tylluan Penry** · 04 Sep 2011, 01:49

Re: Grumpy Kids

Have you tried growling back? He's too young to be consciously 'trying it on' but subconsciously he has already learned that growling and raising his fist is going to get results. So try growling back. Even a roar if necessary. Sometimes doing something totally unexpected can be very effective.

**shadow cat** · 04 Sep 2011, 06:08

Re: Grumpy Kids

I thought about doing that, but I figured it would either scare him or make him even more mad.

*adds to mental list*

**Tylluan Penry** · 04 Sep 2011, 06:23

Re: Grumpy Kids

Originally posted by shadow cat View Post

I thought about doing that, but I figured it would either scare him or make him even more mad.

*adds to mental list*

Well it's unlikely to scare him all that much because he does it himself. And if he's confronted by someone considerably bigger growling back at him it's likely to be a language he will understand. Just a word of caution - never ever let on that it's not serious. Sometimes little people need to have boundaries set for them.

**FantasyWitch** · 04 Sep 2011, 07:40

Re: Grumpy Kids

Originally posted by shadow cat View Post

I thought about doing that, but I figured it would either scare him or make him even more mad.

*adds to mental list*

When Conry (my youngest brother) was about 2 and a half he went through a biting stage. If he didn't get his way then he would bite and HOLD ON for dear life until he tasted blood. It wasn't a nice stage, but he only ever did it to me once.
I told him off for something and he bit my finger, so I took his finger and bit him back. He cried and looked really shocked, but stopped really quickly and said sorry to me. He has NEVER lifted his hands, bit, or done anything against me (even be cheeky) since. Sometimes it is a good idea to growl back because it forces them to realise what they are dishing out. The only downside is that it tends to only work on a one-on-one basis.

Hope that helps :P x

**Just_Wondering** · 13 Feb 2012, 09:47

Re: Grumpy Kids

I agree with the growling thing.

My granny told me that when I was little I used to throw myself on the ground on my stomach and kick my feet and punch the floor and wail. So one day she did the exact same thing. I started boo-hooing and she layed there on the ground and screamed and kicked her feet and smacked the floor. She said I stopped immediately and stared at her like she was nuts, and I never did it again.

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