Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

[Medusa]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

I wonder what you would call an Atheist who chooses to not follow any deity but does not spend time arguing or caring about their absolute validity. I've always been one of those Atheists to always make sure to say 'There is no God for me'. I have never spent the time to argue existence. When in all honesty it wouldn't matter to me. Like fish wondering about butterflies. Who cares?

[Caelia]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

I wonder what you would call an Atheist who chooses to not follow any deity but does not spend time arguing or caring about their absolute validity. I've always been one of those Atheists to always make sure to say 'There is no God for me'. I have never spent the time to argue existence. When in all honesty it wouldn't matter to me. Like fish wondering about butterflies. Who cares?

Just read up on that; that type of atheist is called "apatheist".

[Ophidia]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

Just read up on that; that type of atheist is called "apatheist".

LoL!

I used to be a militant Pagan - I felt like it was my Gods-given duty to make sure everyone knew the 'Truth' about Paganism. Now I don't care if you know, or want to know, the Truth about anything, just as long as you leave me the Hell alone

[Raphaeline]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

As for patron deities, I've always just seen it as a closer relationship to one family member than one has with the rest of the family.

[Medusa]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

As for patron deities, I've always just seen it as a closer relationship to one family member than one has with the rest of the family.

This is why I always see Paganism as the twin sibling of Christianity. This concept and relationship view of patron deities is EXACTLY the same in Catholicism. From the outside both religions are pretty much the same thing. It's almost kind of eerie.

[Caelia]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

This is why I always see Paganism as the twin sibling of Christianity. This concept and relationship view of patron deities is EXACTLY the same in Catholicism. From the outside both religions are pretty much the same thing. It's almost kind of eerie.

What if you're like me and don't necessarily have a patron deity?

[Dez]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

There is a LOT of paganism mixed in with Catholocism...I really think that if you want to look at what people experience with Christianity, you need to keep in mind that for many people Christianity means the affects of Protestantism, though. All of that was very carefully excised generations ago. The trickle-down is often surprisingly visible...I'm pretty sure if I showed someone pictures of different branches of my family, they'd be able to guess which ones were descended from a Calvinist minister in Switzerland.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

Calvinism is possibly one of the most depressing theologies I have ever come across. That said, I agree with DR's point. Catholocism is by far the largest Christian faction but the other half or so of Christianity has a sizable spread in belief and attitude that makes judging them based on Catholocism difficult.

[Ophidia]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

This is why I always see Paganism as the twin sibling of Christianity. This concept and relationship view of patron deities is EXACTLY the same in Catholicism. From the outside both religions are pretty much the same thing. It's almost kind of eerie.

The thing about 'patron deities' and God, though, is that generally a 'patron deity Who is not God' doesn't get jealous or forbid you from seeing other deities. It's more of an open relationship. God is strictly monogamous. Which is something that has always confused me about Catholicism - how exactly does that most vengeful of Gods feel about people deifying the saints? Do the Protestants have it right when they claim the saints are false idols?

[Jembru]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

I never realised how important having a patron was until I found my god's name. In recent years, I have felt less connected to God than to Goddess. I had a name and archetype for Goddess but not for God until recently. The difference in how close I feel to the male aspect of deity, since discovering his name, is incredible. I know some ancient civilisations, like the Egyptians, considered a name to be a very powerful thing, but until now, I never realised just how true this is. How I imagine God has not changed, his name is only depicted on one single shrine in Yorkshire, so nothing is really known of him. The name should therefore be unable to change my perception of him. Yet my feeling for him has changed dramatically. I'm not saying everyone should have patron deities. It won't suit everyone, but for me, it has been very valuable and I feel so empowered from this experience.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

The saints are never actually afforded equivalency or for that matter much power of their own. They're always viewed as agents of a higher power that may plead your case or occasionally deliver said Power's aid to you. The Lord of Hosts has no more cause to complain about them than he does loyal angels. Now if someone decides that the LoH is irrelevant and address only the saint, granting the saint priority, well that might cause a headache but long as that's avoided I'd guess his view amounts to "You're coming to me in the end anyway, not my issue if you happen to be most comfortable talking to one of my agents."

Note: While the Catholic approach to their God has issues, it's also at least in several cases not nearly as jealous as some others. Certain comments could lead to a view where Catholic theology has God saying "I get you in the end regardless so let me worry about something else for the moment," for a decent supply of non-Christians.

[Medusa]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

The thing about 'patron deities' and God, though, is that generally a 'patron deity Who is not God' doesn't get jealous or forbid you from seeing other deities. It's more of an open relationship. God is strictly monogamous. Which is something that has always confused me about Catholicism - how exactly does that most vengeful of Gods feel about people deifying the saints? Do the Protestants have it right when they claim the saints are false idols?

Wait. Didn't the followers of Hera follow her and no one else because they believed she would get mad and jealous? I was pretty sure in all those movies I see (work with me here) they show alot of Pagan worshipers following one or two set deities and not others because those gods would get upset. Again, I'm going by movies, so my knowledge in this could and possibly is extremely small.

[habbalah]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

My knowledge of modern Hellenism is very little, but I read a lot of Greek mythology as a kid. And in a lot of those stories, some poor schmuck would be making a sacrifice to the gods as thanks for his fortune and would forget to name one of them. That one that he forgot to name would then torment the ever-loving hell out of him for the snub.

I would assume that most ancient Greeks would worship all of the gods, but some of them were more devoted to one over another? Or would make a sacrifice to a specific one if they wanted help in that area? Such as making a sacrifice to Poseidon for a safe voyage, or to Ares or Athena before a battle. I don't recall any specific legends when a god would get jealous because humans were worshiping another god, unless it was in such a way that snubbed them.

All apologizes made for any mistakes I made in this. I'm just going off of my memory of mythology, which may be poor and fuzzy around the edges.

For me personally I can say, I mentioned that I don't believe in "god" as a specific person to be worshipped, but a force. If you want to see my Guardians as patron deities, well, I have more than one and even though I really only speak and pray to them, it doesn't mean I don't view the others out there with equal respect. In that, I don't believe it's the same monotheistic attitude of "My god is the only god and could beat up your god".

[thalassa]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

My knowledge of modern Hellenism is very little, but I read a lot of Greek mythology as a kid. And in a lot of those stories, some poor schmuck would be making a sacrifice to the gods as thanks for his fortune and would forget to name one of them. That one that he forgot to name would then torment the ever-loving hell out of him for the snub.

I would assume that most ancient Greeks would worship all of the gods, but some of them were more devoted to one over another? Or would make a sacrifice to a specific one if they wanted help in that area? Such as making a sacrifice to Poseidon for a safe voyage, or to Ares or Athena before a battle. I don't recall any specific legends when a god would get jealous because humans were worshiping another god, unless it was in such a way that snubbed them.

Most mythological "problems" seemed to have arisen when someone either forgot a god that assisted them, or when two (or more) gods took an interest in someone as a way to compete with one another, or specifically transgressed against a specific god and asked other gods for assistance. The thing to remember about Greek mythology is that our retelling of mythology comes from later writers inserting them into poetry, plays, etc...usually with a specific political or social agenda and at the very least with their own personal biases. Sort of like the King James Bible, lol. AFAIK, we don't have any "written greek myths as they were used religiously" (if they even were). From prayers and inscriptions and such, its not unusual to have both multiple or single deities addressed (one of my favorite is the Greek hymn to Gaia). Also, entire towns and provinces, professions, etc would have a sort of patron deity--like sailors and fishermen and sea side towns to Poseidon (not always, but often).

[Ophidia]

Re: Dealing with an aspect of The Divine that makes you uncomfortable

Wait. Didn't the followers of Hera follow her and no one else because they believed she would get mad and jealous? I was pretty sure in all those movies I see (work with me here) they show alot of Pagan worshipers following one or two set deities and not others because those gods would get upset. Again, I'm going by movies, so my knowledge in this could and possibly is extremely small.

There are some notable animosities in various pantheons. Coming from my own experience, the Santeria orishas Oya and Oshun are jealous rivals, and if one is your patron, the other can't (or won't) be. But Oya doesn't care if you see other orisha as long as they aren't Oshun, and Oshun doesn't care about any other orisha as long as they aren't Oya. Hera may be the same way - I don't worship Her, so I can't tell you from experience. As far as ancient Greeks are concerned, with many of the Greek cults it's hard to tell exactly what the personality of a deity was supposed to be. Every major city had temples and cults, but one city might have a cult to 'Hera, the Wife of Zeus' while another may have a cult of 'Hera the Great Mother'. Most of Hera's major temples were already in ruins from the 2nd century BCE (described in writings by Pausanius, a geographer/travel guide/trader), with most of their prominent art stripped out. Many of the followers of Isis seemed largely monotheistic in practice/worship, so in places where Hera merged w/Isis, Her cults may have also ended up monotheistic.

Fuck me, this place has turned me into a scholar. >.<