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    #1

    Are parents pansies?

    Medusa's thread and Danie's response made me think that this is probably a separate topic...

    Click image for larger version Name: helicopter-parents2.jpg Views: 1 Size: 37.7 KB ID: 355922

    But, are parents becoming too restrictive and too involved?

    some sauce
    more sauce
    some more sauce
    college sauce
    grow-up sauce
    and its not just us kooky americans sauce

    or my favorite:
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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    #2
    Re: Are parents pansies?

    Haha no it's not just you 'kooky' americans (in fact, my comparison in the other thread was actually between here and back home in Canada), but it does seem to be more of an English-speaking country phenomenon.

    Still I don't really want to say it's better here, because I think they go wayyy too far in the other direction and don't teach enough social boundaries in the name of letting their kids be 'free' and 'creative'. This not only doesn't teach kids boundaries, but it annoys EVERYONE who is not a parent (it's a really common source of complaining here). I'm not a parent so I don't have all the answers, but there must be some sort of way to strike a balance in this....

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      #3
      Re: Are parents pansies?

      Too restrictive?

      I've got fond memories of parents bitching at me for preventing their brats from abusing a $500 display set. I'd like to see parents that are a little more restrictive.

      Too involved?

      This one I can see. Got brownie points with a course advisor by saying that no my parents don't have permission to contact the school to check on anything. Seems she'd run into parents that had to be involved with the college and not been impressed.
      Life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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        #4
        Re: Are parents pansies?

        lol, all those articles I linked started freaking me out...like, where's the international stories?!?!

        I know they exist though, because I read the Free-range Kids blog,written by Lenore Skenazy...and while I think some of those parents are a bit over the top too, its creepy to me some of the stories she puts up there, on how * weird* some parents are. The woman who runs the blog actually had a TV show sort of like SuperNanny or whatever those shows are...lemme see if I can find the clip...but there was actually a parent that still went into the bathroom stall with her school age daughter. I stopped going into the stall with Sophie around 3 1/2-4, when I knew she could wipe well after pooping and get all her clothing back on properly before she came out of the bathroom. In fact, I generally let her go to the bathroom by herself, period...even in a public restroom.


        ah...here it is:



        Let me just say that my parents NEVER would have let me ride the subway alone at 9...because we didn't live somewhere that a subway existed, and it wasn't a "norm"--instead I rode my bike to the city pool, the library, the ice cream shop, and several area parks...
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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          #5
          Re: Are parents pansies?

          Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
          Too restrictive?

          I've got fond memories of parents bitching at me for preventing their brats from abusing a $500 display set. I'd like to see parents that are a little more restrictive.
          .

          I see moms at the park every day that don't let their 4 or 5 year old on the "big slide" and shoot me dirty looks because my 3 year old can manage the 7 foot high money bars about half way across, and I don't sit there ready to catch him...and he is more than happy to jump down on his own.

          ...what is funny is that the dads or grandparents are usually like "look at that little guy!" and "if he can do it, so can you!"


          I'm thinking restrictive in a different way... I think parents are too permissive in teaching their kids manners and basic public behavior...but they are way to restrictive in letting them have their own experiences and learning from their mistakes.

          The proper response (IMO) of those parents would have been telling their kids "You should know better because I taught you better and now you are going to sit here and get you butt chewed out by the guy that works here and then by me on the way home, and you are DAMN lucky you didn't break it, because you'd be doing hard labor to pay for it! And NEXT time, if you want time without me hovering over you, you better act straight!"

          But instead, parents are doing their kids homework...in college.
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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            #6
            Re: Are parents pansies?

            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
            l

            Let me just say that my parents NEVER would have let me ride the subway alone at 9...because we didn't live somewhere that a subway existed, and it wasn't a "norm"--instead I rode my bike to the city pool, the library, the ice cream shop, and several area parks...
            Yeah fair enough. If it's not a norm where you are it doesn't make sense. Even if there is a subway and it isn't widely used, it's not the best idea. Other people need to be around!

            I also used to ride my bike to go get ice cream and stuff at that age. I can't even fathom what's wrong with it.

            ---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
            I
            I'm thinking restrictive in a different way... I think parents are too permissive in teaching their kids manners and basic public behavior...but they are way to restrictive in letting them have their own experiences and learning from their mistakes.

            The proper response (IMO) of those parents would have been telling their kids "You should know better because I taught you better and now you are going to sit here and get you butt chewed out by the guy that works here and then by me on the way home, and you are DAMN lucky you didn't break it, because you'd be doing hard labor to pay for it! And NEXT time, if you want time without me hovering over you, you better act straight!"

            But instead, parents are doing their kids homework...in college.
            Bahhhh OMG this is exactly what I mean. Yes...that's the balance. Teach social boundaries, but let them go have fun on the playground and understand that sometimes, they might fall off their bike or break their leg.

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              #7
              Re: Are parents pansies?

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post

              The proper response (IMO) of those parents would have been telling their kids "You should know better because I taught you better and now you are going to sit here and get you butt chewed out by the guy that works here and then by me on the way home, and you are DAMN lucky you didn't break it, because you'd be doing hard labor to pay for it! And NEXT time, if you want time without me hovering over you, you better act straight!"


              Bows before the God-Empress.

              Seriously, I don't think I ever such a radical event. I occasionally had parents not bitch at me but parents that also made it clear the kids were fully in the wrong....
              Life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


              Comment

                #8
                Re: Are parents pansies?

                The hovering and overly-permissive stuff are two sides of the same coin.

                With a combo of social and economic factors, those of us who grew up in the 80's and 90's( and so on the younger side of that range experienced helicopter parenting themselves) and are now having kids were taught that the world is ultimately a scary place. Ads and specials acted like there were people waiting to feed us drugs at every intersection. News covered AIDS and flesh-eating viruses in gory detail, and amped up stories about kids going missing from their front yards so much that our own parents started to worry about letting us play outside.

                The economy has taught us that one can have a great major, play all your cards right, and still be jobless and drowning in debt post-graduation. That hard work does not mean getting ahead anymore. That the chances of most of my generation owning their own home someday is slim to none.

                So parents start to micro-manage their kids education, trying to give them a head start in an increasingly unfriendly world.

                They feel guilty. Can't let Johnny play outside, but he can eat an entire meal of crackers at the restaurant. He's driving his mother crazy cooped up at home, so she doesn't care what he plays with at the store, she's mentally on break. Johnny has 3 hours of homework every night because of no child left behind and a competitive school district? Of course he's having complete meltdowns in the frozen food section on Friday night.
                Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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                  #9
                  Re: Are parents pansies?

                  I have a weird problem with children on an actual leash. I KNOW it's a safety thing. I get it. But I keep thinking, how is this teaching your child anything? I see this helicopter parent during b-day parties at the bowling alley. I get parents (and I'll be real friggin honest with my observation. It's always Caucasian parents. A.L.W.A.Y.S.) that hover around their kid. Coddle them when they don't throw a good ball. Talk AT them for 10 minutes on 'correct' behavior. Or start the retarded countdown. And I notice there is always one kid who I can spot is probably already in therapy because of that coddling.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #10
                    Re: Are parents pansies?

                    Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                    I have a weird problem with children on an actual leash. I KNOW it's a safety thing. I get it. But I keep thinking, how is this teaching your child anything? I see this helicopter parent during b-day parties at the bowling alley. I get parents (and I'll be real friggin honest with my observation. It's always Caucasian parents. A.L.W.A.Y.S.) that hover around their kid. Coddle them when they don't throw a good ball. Talk AT them for 10 minutes on 'correct' behavior. Or start the retarded countdown. And I notice there is always one kid who I can spot is probably already in therapy because of that coddling.
                    We get the same thing at the casino. They pop their kids up on the counter, let them sign the registration cards, play with stuff on the desk, snatch things out of their hands, poke their heads behind the station dividers & look at the computers, ask a million pointless questions & expect us to talk to the kids & not the grown-ups. Complain about the smoky atmosphere...

                    - but at 3am, those same kids are running amok in the hotel lobby so mom & dad can gamble.

                    We're not babysitters. We call security.
                    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                      #11
                      Re: Are parents pansies?

                      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                      I have a weird problem with children on an actual leash. I KNOW it's a safety thing. I get it. But I keep thinking, how is this teaching your child anything? I see this helicopter parent during b-day parties at the bowling alley. I get parents (and I'll be real friggin honest with my observation. It's always Caucasian parents. A.L.W.A.Y.S.) that hover around their kid. Coddle them when they don't throw a good ball. Talk AT them for 10 minutes on 'correct' behavior. Or start the retarded countdown. And I notice there is always one kid who I can spot is probably already in therapy because of that coddling.
                      Yeah my brother was on a leash for a bit, because my mom couldn't even go shopping...she'd turn around to get something off the shelf, and he'd be gone. Still, I don't think she'd do it now. It was the 80s and was popular at the time, but there are other problems that go with the leash (if the kid decides to go run anyway, it can cause whiplash!)

                      I hate seeing kids who can walk in huge-ass prams. I hate those prams with a blind passion anyway, but kids who can walk shouldn't be in them. When I was a kid I used to WALK while my brother was in the stroller, and sometimes if my legs got tired I'd piggy back on the back of it....it was fun. Extra hatred goes to parents who have kids well old enough to walk, but still get double-wide prams for both of them. I see both of these more in Canada though than here...they have the huge-ass prams here but mostly just babies are in them...people don't think walking is such a big inconvenience here, and when you're old enough to walk, you WALK.

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                        #12
                        Re: Are parents pansies?

                        Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                        But I keep thinking, how is this teaching your child anything?

                        <snip>

                        Talk AT them for 10 minutes on 'correct' behavior. Or start the retarded countdown.
                        So...in regards to the leash, it actually works. I had a kid on a leash for about 12 months...(@Danie--after the first few tries, whiplash wasn't an issue (playing tug of war though...)) If you have a kid that is a runner before they are at the point of reason (like my early ADHD kid), or if you are in a super crowded place that is not familiar to them or you (like a train station), its awesome. It actually works, if you use it right, in terms of teaching them boundaries and it keeps them from getting run over. Some kids literally have no impulse control, and the leash helps reign that in a bit until they learn to for themselves. Plus, if you have a parent that is super tall or a kid that is smaller it keeps them from having that *you've been holding my hand and dragging me around for two hours* crick in their neck and shoulder. Seriously, stick your hand up in the air like you are hanging from the monkey bars from one hand and stay like that for 10 minutes--its not comfortable. And, the parents that are yankers (or the ones that swing their kids) can actually partially dislocate their elbow--its one of the most common injuries seen in little kids in the ER. Sure, I could have dumped him in the stroller, but I'm big on *not* coddling them (and its good exercise, and good exercise=naptime)...and once they are somewhat reasonable and reasoning, its not that hard to transition them to "hey, if you stay by me, and come back when I tell you too, we can try taking the leash off...but if your butt tries to run away or doesn't listen, its back on the leash kid!"

                        What bothers me is when I see a kid that is *way too old* on a leash when there is obviously nothing wrong with them (I saw a mom--not white actually--with all 4 of her kids on a leash...and all of them were what I would consider too old (one of them looked to be at least 8)) or a kid in a stroller when they are way too old. We almost never used a stroller anyhow, because we used a sling, but we did use one for long walking trips like the zoo...but at about three for Sophie and two and a half for Collin, we didn't even own a stroller anymore. IMO, by 4 (and definitely by 5) there is absolutely no reason for a kid to need a stroller unless there is something wrong with them.

                        Also...like the leash...counting works, if you do it right. And doing it right means 1)no talking *at* them 2) no emotion from you as a parent and 3) if you get to three or five, then you have to carry out whatever your method of punishment is. It should go "Stop X now...1....2....3....time out" and that's it. But most parents count as an empty threat and it doesn't work. With Sophie, I don't even remember the last time I've had to count past 2....with Collin, we have time out quite a bit, but he's getting better. I think part of the problem there is that people don't want to be judged for their parenting and then end up in court over it--like the hot sauce mom...and some kids are difficult.

                        And that I think it the problem...parents aren't consistent, and you can't be effective if you aren't consistent. Then again, there are times when you are just so worn out that you just don't give a shit as long as there is peace...
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          #13
                          Re: Are parents pansies?

                          This whole thing was kind of funny to me... I think this is a "city people" problem. Out here, I raised my kids like I raise weeds... keep them in the right place, and leave them alone. Worked out fine - I ended up with two exceptional kids - one just graduated with honors from an acedemically rigorous university, and the other is going off to college next year - with high honors from the high school. When there is a problem out here, it seems to be that people neglect the first part of the formula - "keep them in the right place."

                          The leash thing, though... I have no real opinion on that. We don't even leash the dog. But we went once to pick up brother-in-law and family at the airport. The two boys were leashed, and took off as soon as they got off the plane. LOL - about 15 random strangers ended up getting roped, and people were falling like bowling pins.

                          I don't think they did it right...
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                            #14
                            Re: Are parents pansies?

                            lol...I can just imagine that!

                            ...the only place its really "safe" to let the kids run around here is at the beach or the park--and by "safe" I mean someone won't call CPS or they won't get hit by a car.
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                              #15
                              Re: Are parents pansies?

                              Yeah - we're sitting on 30 acres.

                              But also, "keeping them in the right place" refers to teaching them how to get along with other people. A parent does have to use discipline, and, Thalassa, everything you've said about that is golden. On top of that, of course, is being a good example for the kids. They really do learn most of their social skills from example - if they don't get it from adults around them, they'll pick it up off the TV...

                              Scary.
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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