The Paula Deen backlash

[Starling]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

She did it to herself. That's utterly unprofessional behavior, she got fired. The end.

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

Whether or something is "acceptable" to you in 2013, doesn't change the cultural reality that it is still practiced. And, if you've traveled through the non-urban areas of Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, etc I'm not sure you can speak to the "point of making the southern US look like a hippie party". There are multiple areas in the former Confederate states where The War is still not over...and even in more urban, tolerant, and diverse areas, you will still find people that think that "slavery wasn't all that bad"---I had the misfortune of meeting one the other day.

I'm not saying its right (its not) or that its fair (its not) or that I don't find it morally repugnant (I do)...I'm saying that it still happens, and is still part of the culture...which really means there are still people that find it "acceptable"

I know what you mean...I'm just saying that I don't think those people should get a pass. Culture is not an excuse for racism, and no one should accept it.

and I meant before that a lot of people in Europe are still openly racist, and defend it as "protecting their culture." Sometimes public policy even matches that (France and its burka ban, for example). I still don't think it's ok, and I think those people deserve severe criticism.

[SPhoenix]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

I know what you mean...I'm just saying that I don't think those people should get a pass. Culture is not an excuse for racism, and no one should accept it. and I meant before that a lot of people in Europe are still openly racist, and defend it as "protecting their culture." Sometimes public policy even matches that (France and its burka ban, for example). I still don't think it's ok, and I think those people deserve severe criticism.

This is a whole other discussion that doesn't really belong here. I will just state that "Muslim" isn't a race any more than "Christian" is a race.

Discussion here is of racism, not of immigration issues. If we want to create a discussion about whether or not the "hosting" country should be required to make accommodations for people moving there to better their lives (whatever their race, creed, or belief), then I'm sure it could be a rousing good discussion. But it should be its own discussion, in my personal opinion.

And I think it's dishonest to try to make religious issues into race issues, when they are their own issues that may sometimes overlap, but which should have their own platforms so that they don't overlap in ways that create even more discrimination issues both directions.

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

Well no, it's not a race. But the hatred comes from the same place. And a lot of hatred is race-fuelled. Muslim isn't a race, but Middle Eastern and North African is, and there are people who hate them. Not because of their religion, but because they're different. I've even seen it here. It's hard to describe the way some of these people are, but it has jack all to do with religion sometimes...trust me.

My point is, it's easy to say "their culture is just like that." But that doesn't make it ok....defending hatred due to culture is totally unacceptable.

[SPhoenix]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

But that doesn't make it ok....defending hatred due to culture is totally unacceptable.

I certainly agree with that part!

However, in fairness, I didn't see anyone defending it, so much as explaining it... and saying that it can be hard to overcome your upbringing... including sometimes understanding that you're being a bigot rather than "just like everyone else". Sometimes we "know not what we do". Understanding that can make it easier to say, "Your opinion can't hurt me. You don't even realize what a monster you're acting like, how can I take your words to heart?"

That doesn't mean it should be tolerated, as far as what she said. As someone else said, she lost her job--and she should. But should her entire character be assassinated socially on every level because of it? That's where I think some people are explaining her behavior (versus saying "and so it's fine", which I didn't read it that way at all).

[Denarius]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

I think that she made a mistake. If we started digging into everyone's closet, we'd find all sorts of skeletons. Destroying someone's life over it doesn't make the suit bringer a better person than the one behaving badly. Everyone behaves badly in some area of life.

I yell at my kid sometimes and totally lose my temper. My husband blames me for things that I didn't do (in a major way).

Everyone behaves badly and does bad things. People are way too quick to point fingers and demonize others and smirk with satisfaction when lives are ruined (speaking general public/ generalization here, individuals obviously vary). Public opinion is murder/ suicide, and it doesn't take anything at all to cause it.

(...)

Paula said stupid s***, and she's a bigot. Who isn't a bigot about something?? I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't have a "thing" that they prejudge (pagans are all bad people; christians only want to mindlessly convert you; black people can't swim; southern people are hicks; New Englanders are distant--guilty of this one, myself; white people can't jump or rap; fans of X sports team will destroy your car if you go to their town during their home team games; the list goes on and on and on).

So, your point is that none of us are perfect therefore we have no standing to criticize anyone for anything? Bigotry is not a good thing, it is a bad thing and should be discouraged. Yeah, that can be a career killer for a celebrity; that is just in the nature of their profession. That's why celebrities have public relations managers.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

Yup, that's bound to be contributory...



Have you ever been south of the Mason-Dixon Line?

Two things... firstly that I'm from a different era too, but I'm a damned sight more tolerant than that silly cow seems to have been. And secondly, that while I haven't been south of the Mason-Dixon Line, I have personal links with the 'line' itself in that one of them was my ancestor - an Englishman! And during the course of surveying the said line, he saw someone whipping his slave, snatched the whip off him and proceeded to hit seven bells out of the said man. (He apparently brought the whip home with him - one of my cousins remembered seeing it in her home when she was a girl).

So although I can appreciate this woman may have grown up a long time ago amongst bigots, there are times when you simply have to change. And she didn't/hasn't.

I hope though, that she does one day.

[Ophidia]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

So although I can appreciate this woman may have grown up a long time ago amongst bigots, there are times when you simply have to change. And she didn't/hasn't.

I see this with the mother-in-law - she's acknowledged that how she feels about black people isn't 'right' according to today's societal standards but she's also said she's never going to change her mind. What amazes me is that in her 70-some years of living in America (she came here from Hungary as a child), no one else has called her out on it. She even says racist things in public places, and no one else seems to pay any attention. And when I do criticize her, people tell me not to pick on the 'poor old woman'.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

I see this with the mother-in-law - she's acknowledged that how she feels about black people isn't 'right' according to today's societal standards but she's also said she's never going to change her mind. What amazes me is that in her 70-some years of living in America (she came here from Hungary as a child), no one else has called her out on it. She even says racist things in public places, and no one else seems to pay any attention. And when I do criticize her, people tell me not to pick on the 'poor old woman'.

Bloody hell!

[Raphaeline]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

I see this with the mother-in-law - she's acknowledged that how she feels about black people isn't 'right' according to today's societal standards but she's also said she's never going to change her mind. What amazes me is that in her 70-some years of living in America (she came here from Hungary as a child), no one else has called her out on it. She even says racist things in public places, and no one else seems to pay any attention. And when I do criticize her, people tell me not to pick on the 'poor old woman'.

I think a lot of people have just written off that generation - we're all just ignoring them until they eventually fade away.

[SPhoenix]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

So, your point is that none of us are perfect therefore we have no standing to criticize anyone for anything? Bigotry is not a good thing, it is a bad thing and should be discouraged. Yeah, that can be a career killer for a celebrity; that is just in the nature of their profession. That's why celebrities have public relations managers.

No, that's not my point. My point is that since we're none perfect, we have no right to demonize someone. It's fine to say that she's wrong and to say that she should have lost her job. It's fine to say that her behavior was inappropriate. It's not, on the other hand, okay to make it out like she's some kind of horrendous human being or a monster because of one snapshot of her life. She made a grievous mistake, and her decision to behave that way was a very foolish one.

If every poor choice makes a person a bad person and means they should lose their entire career, then perhaps you would still have yours, but I'd certainly have lost mine a long time ago. Most people I know would have, too.

[Denarius]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

No, that's not my point. My point is that since we're none perfect, we have no right to demonize someone. It's fine to say that she's wrong and to say that she should have lost her job. It's fine to say that her behavior was inappropriate. It's not, on the other hand, okay to make it out like she's some kind of horrendous human being or a monster because of one snapshot of her life.

I absolutely agree, she may or may not have some outdated and/or prejudicial feelings or beliefs but that doesn't make her a bad person exactly. A flawed one certainly, but let's keep it real. It's not like she was caught running around in a pointed hood lynching people.

I don't think there are many people who think she's evil or something like that, I certainly haven't got that impression from this thread or the websites I've poked around about this subject on.

It's all mostly just as had been said, she behaved inappropriately. It just happens that she has a job where her success depends on sponsors, sponsors that will cut ties with anything they think will bring them down.

Celebrities are by definition put on a pedestal, and that is rocky footing at best.

[Monster]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

I've got a better question: Who cares?

There is no way that any order, law, procedure or anything else is going to make one person like another. Its impossible. However...............

Our economy is in the tank. Our government is out of control. Our borders are not secure. Taxes are going sky high. The national deficit is a joke..........

But lets all discuss ad nauseum Paula Deen's use of the word ni**er. Keep your heads in the sand people. You're being played.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

I think a lot of people have just written off that generation - we're all just ignoring them until they eventually fade away.

Well, don't write me off just yet (It's okay, I know you didn't mean that!) Because I fully intend to grow old disgracefully....

[Luce]

Re: The Paula Deen backlash

I've got a better question: Who cares?

There is no way that any order, law, procedure or anything else is going to make one person like another. Its impossible. However...............

Our economy is in the tank. Our government is out of control. Our borders are not secure. Taxes are going sky high. The national deficit is a joke..........

But lets all discuss ad nauseum Paula Deen's use of the word ni**er. Keep your heads in the sand people. You're being played.

Taxes are what? Have you actually looked?

And our borders are not secure? At what point were we designed to live in a fortress?