Belief vs. Reason
So first off, hi! I haven't really been around in forever, this'll be my first thread after so long. Looking forward to jumping back in to some interesting discussions with you guys. Anyway, now that we have that out of the way--
I'm really curious about something that I've never bothered to poll my fellow Pagans about: Are your beliefs based primarily upon faith, or reason? Are you, or were you at any point, a skeptic? That is, do you employ things like Occam's Razor into your belief system? Do you seek or do you feel you have evidence for any or all of your beliefs?
For those of you who do rely on evidence and reason, what, to you, constitutes evidence? What evidence have you found during your time as a Pagan?
For those of you who rely upon belief, how do you feel about skepticism? What caused you to believe as you do now?
I realize this is a very lengthy topic, but I hope you'll indulge me. No need to answer all of the questions - I just wanted to put them all out there to start the conversation.
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I suppose if I'm going to pry as much, I should probably answer as well, right? Personally, I used to be an agnostic/skeptic. I came out of the madness of fundy land and immediately became very stubborn about NOT wanting to believe anything off-hand. It took a very long time and a lot of compelling evidence before I caved in and believed that there was in fact enough veracity to magic, the paranormal, the supernatural, and so on, to become a believer.
Today, I have two categories of belief:
1. Beliefs I hold very firmly because I have seen undeniable evidence, especially things like witnesses, blind test subjects, news stories, things like that -- for example, if you set specific parameters for the magic you intend to do, you do it without telling anyone, and people come forward of their own volition (or even better, it's on the news or something) describing those specific parameters having been met, you can pretty confidently say you've proven that your spell worked. Strangely enough, I believe in some really crazy stuff today because I've been confronted with crazy amounts of evidence to back it up. Truth is stranger than fiction, and for some of us, we're lucky (or perhaps unlucky!) enough to see the crazy side of life. For example, I absolutely believe that shapeshifters and werewolves exist. I would not have ever believed in this if I had not seen enough compelling evidence to support it including personally encountering a werewolf (or as they call them in Michigan, "dogman") face-to-face. That's a pretty crazy belief, and crazy beliefs require crazy amounts of evidence, but I felt I most definitely had enough to convince me. Did I grab a camera in that moment of sheer terror? Hell no! I was mostly thinking "please gods don't let it eat me". Therefore, I always welcome skepticism from others - it's understandable to be skeptical of tall claims like that, and this is the internet after all. But I know in my bones that the evidence was there, and that these things exist, therefore I hold the belief firmly to be fact.
2. My "theoretical folder" (I don't know, I just sort of ended up calling it that, haha) -- it should probably be more like the "hypothetical folder", but I digress. These are beliefs I hold, but simultaneously admit I cannot prove and therefore they are simply beliefs and may be subject to change at any point in time. It may be that there is vague evidence but not enough to satisfy me, or it may be that there is none at all, but for whatever reason, even though I like to believe these things, ultimately I will always say that they are basically in my little "theoretical folder" category. Sometimes I'm okay with it staying that way; I think in some ways, spiritual matters can be very hazy, sort of philosophical or subjective, so in many cases I'm okay with diving in confidently knowing that I may be wrong. Life is about learning and change anyway.
I'm really curious about something that I've never bothered to poll my fellow Pagans about: Are your beliefs based primarily upon faith, or reason? Are you, or were you at any point, a skeptic? That is, do you employ things like Occam's Razor into your belief system? Do you seek or do you feel you have evidence for any or all of your beliefs?
For those of you who do rely on evidence and reason, what, to you, constitutes evidence? What evidence have you found during your time as a Pagan?
For those of you who rely upon belief, how do you feel about skepticism? What caused you to believe as you do now?
I realize this is a very lengthy topic, but I hope you'll indulge me. No need to answer all of the questions - I just wanted to put them all out there to start the conversation.
------
I suppose if I'm going to pry as much, I should probably answer as well, right? Personally, I used to be an agnostic/skeptic. I came out of the madness of fundy land and immediately became very stubborn about NOT wanting to believe anything off-hand. It took a very long time and a lot of compelling evidence before I caved in and believed that there was in fact enough veracity to magic, the paranormal, the supernatural, and so on, to become a believer.
Today, I have two categories of belief:
1. Beliefs I hold very firmly because I have seen undeniable evidence, especially things like witnesses, blind test subjects, news stories, things like that -- for example, if you set specific parameters for the magic you intend to do, you do it without telling anyone, and people come forward of their own volition (or even better, it's on the news or something) describing those specific parameters having been met, you can pretty confidently say you've proven that your spell worked. Strangely enough, I believe in some really crazy stuff today because I've been confronted with crazy amounts of evidence to back it up. Truth is stranger than fiction, and for some of us, we're lucky (or perhaps unlucky!) enough to see the crazy side of life. For example, I absolutely believe that shapeshifters and werewolves exist. I would not have ever believed in this if I had not seen enough compelling evidence to support it including personally encountering a werewolf (or as they call them in Michigan, "dogman") face-to-face. That's a pretty crazy belief, and crazy beliefs require crazy amounts of evidence, but I felt I most definitely had enough to convince me. Did I grab a camera in that moment of sheer terror? Hell no! I was mostly thinking "please gods don't let it eat me". Therefore, I always welcome skepticism from others - it's understandable to be skeptical of tall claims like that, and this is the internet after all. But I know in my bones that the evidence was there, and that these things exist, therefore I hold the belief firmly to be fact.
2. My "theoretical folder" (I don't know, I just sort of ended up calling it that, haha) -- it should probably be more like the "hypothetical folder", but I digress. These are beliefs I hold, but simultaneously admit I cannot prove and therefore they are simply beliefs and may be subject to change at any point in time. It may be that there is vague evidence but not enough to satisfy me, or it may be that there is none at all, but for whatever reason, even though I like to believe these things, ultimately I will always say that they are basically in my little "theoretical folder" category. Sometimes I'm okay with it staying that way; I think in some ways, spiritual matters can be very hazy, sort of philosophical or subjective, so in many cases I'm okay with diving in confidently knowing that I may be wrong. Life is about learning and change anyway.
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