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    Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

    So I am a Hellenic polytheist but I'm having some trouble getting my morals and interest into it. Compared to Anglo-Saxon Heathenism where you have a much more friendly and personal relationship with the gods and you don't feel so beneath them, with Hellinismos the deities seem more indifferent about your relationship or that you're of little value to them. Heathenism seems to be more in touch with nature which is really important to me. I know Hellenismos has some lesser natural gods but they seem really ignored and not really worth attention aynway. Also the ritual and prayer of Hellenismos seem incredibly strict and constant where as in Heathenism there are fewer but they seem more lenient and more personal with their deities and companions. Also the afterlife, cosmology, and pantheon of Heathenism just seem much nicer and open in general. I am not saying it's better completely, I am just having trouble getting into Hellenismos because of the culture and practice, but I am already involved with the community. Any advice?

    #2
    Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

    So what about Hellenismos has your interest?
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #3
      Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

      Well the mythology is incredible. The deities and ideas are incredibly interesting. I enjoy ritual and holiday (not to the extent that is portrayed in the religion). I am a classics major. And I'm already involved with the community. I just don't feel like I connect to the values and ideas about the afterlife and the way I interact with the gods and goddesses. Plus I would have no idea how to transition and I don't want my associates to think I can never make up my mind about my beliefs (I was raised Christian then became an atheist most of my life).

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        #4
        Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

        I think it's important to remember that Hellenic religion covered a huge area and time scale. I'm sure - being a classics major - that you would probably find something there that suits you well if you keep looking.
        Anglo-Saxon heathenism is a tricky one to follow without getting sidetracked over to Scandinavian Heathenism. It's very easy to conflate one with the other. And we're not entirely sure what the Anglo-Saxons thought about their deities, really since all the written evidence we have comes from a Christian viewpoint. (And I don't say that lightly since I have a strong interest in the Anglo-Saxons anyway!) But if you have any specific questions then ask away - there is quite a strong heathen presence here at the PF so I'm sure you'll get a number of interesting answers!
        www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


        Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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          #5
          Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

          We heathens do tend to have more fun than the majority of other groups. We're a lot more laid back. If you want to thank the gods, you do. You offer them alcohol or meat, And you don't have to commit to a whole bunch of complicated ritual workings to satisfy them (but you totally can if you'd like to) Our mythological stories are some of far out thinking. They bring our Gods to the point of humanity. In the stories, they make mistakes too, as they do feel emotion, grief, lust, and love. Our Gods walk amongst us, I mean, They are basically human, but extreme versions of us. As for holidays, the majority of our "new world" Holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc) come from Norse Traditions. So that Christmas tree you deck out yearly was a way of paying patronage to the forest spirits and other gods in our faith, in a lure to bring back Spring. But they would use food and such on the trees. Norse culture is everywhere in our modern day times. But if you're looking for something more laid back, absolutely bend towards Asatru Heathenism. I'm not 100% sure on our counter parts of Anglo Saxons, but hey, we out drink them any day. I think they wish they were as cool as us.
          "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
          And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
          They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
          The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
          - Finn's Saga

          http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

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            #6
            Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

            Originally posted by wubwubdancer View Post
            So I am a Hellenic polytheist but I'm having some trouble getting my morals and interest into it. Compared to Anglo-Saxon Heathenism where you have a much more friendly and personal relationship with the gods and you don't feel so beneath them, with Hellinismos the deities seem more indifferent about your relationship or that you're of little value to them. Heathenism seems to be more in touch with nature which is really important to me. I know Hellenismos has some lesser natural gods but they seem really ignored and not really worth attention aynway. Also the ritual and prayer of Hellenismos seem incredibly strict and constant where as in Heathenism there are fewer but they seem more lenient and more personal with their deities and companions. Also the afterlife, cosmology, and pantheon of Heathenism just seem much nicer and open in general. I am not saying it's better completely,I am just having trouble getting into Hellenismos because of the culture and practice, but I am already involved with the community. Any advice?

            I think this might be your problem. The Hellenismos community (at least online) tends towards reconstruction (which is fine, if that is your thing...though it sounds like it might not be) and (IMO) elietism (which to me, seems to filter down into their approact to the gods and their religion and is part of the reason why they turn me off religiously).

            I think there is great value in knowing how things were done and why...I think there can be great value in trying things as they were done and experiencing them in that manner (I do historical reenactment, so I know this first hand), but at the end of the day, we are different people. Our values and experiences can only ever be informed and inspired by theirs, they can't ever be recreated (except cosmetically) simply because we are different people shaped by a different world view, different technologies, different challenges, different comforts. Many of the ideas that these cultures took for granted--slavery, views about women, etc, are things we now condemn and even outlaw in our cultures, or at least proclaim not to value. Certainly human nature hasn't changed much, so we still get things wrong (but at least now we call them wrong)...but at the end of the day, we aren't the ancient Athenians or the ancient Messenians.

            This religious experience that you are describing is completely unlike my personal experiences of the Greek deities (I am not a devotional polytheist or a recon, I have a thouroghly land-based eclectic, though mostly Hellenic and Roman inspired). I personally find that the minor deities are far more interesting that the major ones--I specifically deal with the Nerieds (collectively and individually), as well as the Etruscan-Roman and Roman-Celtic deities, plus a few from other cultures with deities that specifically relate to my bioregion (among them, Sedna and La Sirene). I do not adopt the ancient Greek ideas (or Roman ones for that matter) of the afterlife, their view of the gods, or of worship (though I have researched them, tried some of them, and have adapted certain aspects of them).

            Whether you decide on Heathenry or not is completely your journey to take... If that is what speaks to your soul, then do it. But if it is over (what seems to me) structural and cosmetic differences in how to worship and what to believe based on what *this group* says to do and how...look at what YOU believe and find your own way to connect with deity.
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
            sigpic

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              #7
              Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

              Originally posted by wubwubdancer View Post
              ...Compared to Anglo-Saxon Heathenism where you have a much more friendly and personal relationship with the gods and you don't feel so beneath them, with Hellinismos the deities seem more indifferent about your relationship or that you're of little value to them. Heathenism seems to be more in touch with nature which is really important to me. ...


              I personally believe the Heathen deities, whether Norse or Anglo-Saxon (admittedly I don't really know anything about AS Heathenry) are personal, friendly and do take an interest in us. Though they don't meddle, pry into or micro-manage our lives. I also want to warn you that not all Heathens, especially
              1. I believe that the Heathen deities are close, personal, friendly and do not look down their noses at us.
              2. Be aware that other people will be adamant in their disagreement with #1.
              śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
              śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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                #8
                Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

                I agree with #1. If you're a true Asatru Heathen, you'll agree with what Thorbjorn said. It's the Odinists who may disagree, but no one really cares about their opinions anyways. They're a totally recon in our faith.
                "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
                And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
                They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
                The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
                - Finn's Saga

                http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

                  Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
                  I agree with #1. If you're a true Asatru Heathen, you'll agree with what Thorbjorn said. It's the Odinists who may disagree, but no one really cares about their opinions anyways. They're a totally recon in our faith.
                  Its not just Odinisnts though...I've known a number of Heathens over the years (who would consider themselves "true" in their faith) that have beliefs that the gods are not close, personal, or friendly. Its been my observation and experience that how someone relates to their deities (regardless of the pantheon) is personal, not institutional, though like minds usually rally around and form their own groups.
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                  sigpic

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                    #10
                    Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

                    On the subject of whether deities can be friendly...I've found in my albeit limited experience that it's more about how you approach a specific deity, and their own personality and how it meshes with your own. I've found that if I reach out with respect, but seeking a more personal encounter with a deity, they'll respond in kind.
                    I'm not very close to either the Greek or Norse pantheon, but in the few encounters I've had (Artemis and very briefly, Odin), I've found them both to be quite friendly. Granted, I just kind of stumbled across Odin on my mental wanderings, but while we didn't connect, I still got the feeling of a friendly, jovial grandfatherly type. We brushed against each other, he smiled and winked, and we went our separate ways again.
                    It seems that more structured traditions depend more on the mindsets of the humans creating them than the actual mindsets of the deities they're centered around, and a good chunk of deities don't really care, as long as you approach them with the respect that their wisdom and power demand. f course, that does depend on the personality of the deity themselves. It could just be that I'm naturally drawn to the more friendly and easygoing ones.

                    And all that probably sounds crazy, but I hope it helped ^^;;;

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                      #11
                      Re: Trouble committing to Hellenismos, considering Heathenism

                      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                      Its been my observation and experience that how someone relates to their deities (regardless of the pantheon) is personal, not institutional, though like minds usually rally around and form their own groups.
                      I always believed that; faith and spirituality are deeply personally, and everyone experiences it differently. There's a saying in an Indian (south Asian) language that loosely translates as (with a Pagan flavor) "The Gods show themselves in a way meaningful to the believer; everyone sees the Gods in their own way". There is no central authority, doctrine or dogma in Heathenism or Paganism. Yet some people set themselves up as such. I like to think they are in a minority.
                      śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                      śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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