Am I still Pagan?

[cesara]

Re: Am I still Pagan?

The concept and reality of suffering truly helped form my current spiritual beliefs, so I can very much relate to you on that level.

I love what Thalassa has said.

I also agree with LunarHarvest....I perceive what you are describing as 'pantheist', or even 'panentheist' (depending on how far 'God Energy' reaches...only as far as the universe, or beyond)....It's where I'm at, so, my perceptions are most certainly influenced by my own experience.

I would also throw out there that soft polytheism is also under the pagan umbrella, and, I could feel that coming through in your post, as well.

I've been 'in limbo'.....alot....especially in relation to the suffering that goes on in the world....I feel I've managed to work it into my world view relatively well, these days.....it will happen for you, too...in fact, it seems that it has already started.

Best of luck!

[thalassa]

Re: Am I still Pagan?

A random though...

Jem, I'm an agnostic humanist pantheist polytheist...and if that's not having my cake and eating it too, I don't know what is.

And I'm Pagan.

[cesara]

Re: Am I still Pagan?

Haha! Woot! Syncretism at it's finest!

[Jembru]

Re: Am I still Pagan?

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. There's a lot to think about but it seems to be getting clearer and clearer for me. I had intended to spend some time yesterday writing my thoughts and doing some research. Instead I ended up staring at reruns of Knightmare from the 1980s with very little brain activity at all. I think I just need some quiet head space for a day or two before I get all proactive on this.

A random though...

Jem, I'm an agnostic humanist pantheist polytheist...and if that's not having my cake and eating it too, I don't know what is.

And I'm Pagan.

I think I'll end up with a long string of titles too! I'll try not to let that bother me though.

Jembru, I can give you a tentative, personal answer to the question "why does suffering exist?"

Answer - because it is time for people to grow up and stop expecting solutions to come out of "heaven."

If you are a believer, then I suggest that the god(s) & godess(es) don't care for the "mommy & daddy" role they've been assigned.

If you are a non-believer, well, it's obvious...

There is an entry in my BoS from 1998 in which I said pretty much this. I was explaining why witchcraft is so appealing to me and I was comparing how witches are empowered to do the work themselves rather than praying to mummy and daddy to wipe their asses. So this theory isn't new to me. It unfortunately doesn't satisfy my question anymore though. It would do, if the 'bad stuff' I am talking about were things like 'why did god let my boiler breakdown, 'why did she let me crash my car despite having a charm in my window?' 'why didn't I get that promotion'. (I don't drive, or own my boiler, but you get my point). I'm cool with the little things going wrong, even the bigger things like bad breakups, physical illness and of course, the on-going plight of my poor mum. In these cases, I can blame myself for not trying hard enough, not being good enough.

My new approach addresses both these small things, and the larger global issues. The reason the gods don't step in when an infant is being abused, or dying painfully, bleeding from its eyes and ears.. despite the desperate prayers of it's mother, is because they simply are not and can not be, moved by the emotional feelings of the prayer. They have no concept of our pain, because they're not conscious. They just are.

Oddly, this hasn't made me feel any less reverence for deity. It's just changed my expectations of them. It's made me value myself much more than I did before. I don't feel so small and insignificant. In fact, in my own world viewed through my own eyes, I'm very significant indeed.

[thalassa]

Re: Am I still Pagan?

The reason the gods don't step in when an infant is being abused, or dying painfully, bleeding from its eyes and ears.. despite the desperate prayers of it's mother, is because they simply are not and can not be, moved by the emotional feelings of the prayer. They have no concept of our pain, because they're not conscious. They just are.

Oddly, this hasn't made me feel any less reverence for deity. It's just changed my expectations of them. It's made me value myself much more than I did before. I don't feel so small and insignificant. In fact, in my own world viewed through my own eyes, I'm very significant indeed.

Have you ever watched Star Trek Deep Space 9? If not, and you can get it there (I'd say its on Netflix, but I know what is on Netflix can vary by country...here its also on Amazon Prime)...this really isn't off topic, your comment about concept made me think of the scenes of Commander Sisko with the Bajoran prophets (which are really non-temporal space entities of immense power).

[Jembru]

Re: Am I still Pagan?

Have you ever watched Star Trek Deep Space 9? If not, and you can get it there (I'd say its on Netflix, but I know what is on Netflix can vary by country...here its also on Amazon Prime)...this really isn't off topic, your comment about concept made me think of the scenes of Commander Sisko with the Bajoran prophets (which are really non-temporal space entities of immense power).

I haven't seen it, but my mum has quiite a lot of star trek on DVD, so she might be able to lend it to me. I'll ask her about it. I formed my concept of the spirit relms through a novel, so a concept of deity inspired by sci-fi won't be much of a stretch. ^^