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    Are Germanic deities distant?

    For those who work with Norse/Germanic deities, do you often feel that the gods are quite distant, uncaring and unapproachable? I have an interest in Germanic gods and goddesses and this is something I have heard about quite a bit by a few others who honor them. Is this your experience?

    #2
    Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

    Well, they don't micromanage...
    I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

    Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
    Clan of my Clan
    Kin of my Kin
    Blood of my Blood



    For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
    And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

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      #3
      Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

      Interesting. So would you say that they don't really have all that much involvement in their devotee's lives?

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        #4
        Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

        Hehehe... I would say that, but there are others here who I am sure will disagree with me... the Old Ways (Swedish Forn Sed: "old customs") are less about gods and goddesses and more about family (both the living and the Ancestors), community and honoring the local vaetter (wights, or spirits).
        I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

        Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
        Clan of my Clan
        Kin of my Kin
        Blood of my Blood



        For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
        And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

          Originally posted by Rick View Post
          Hehehe... I would say that, but there are others here who I am sure will disagree with me... the Old Ways (Swedish Forn Sed: "old customs") are less about gods and goddesses and more about family (both the living and the Ancestors), community and honoring the local vaetter (wights, or spirits).
          I'm of the opinion (after much observation and research over the years) that (in general) the idea of forming a relationship with personal gods is fairly modern. Not to say that it didn't exist, but that it wasn't the typical experience.
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
          sigpic

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            #6
            Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

            Based on my personal experiences, they are somewhat distant, indeed. I wouldn't say they don't care about people who honour them, though. It's basically what Rick and Thalassa said. I'm more into the modern thing, so I believe they can create some kind of personal relationship with us (specially with the ones who have characteristics they appreciate, for example Bragi with poets and musicians). It's just that they won't always be near.

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              #7
              Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

              I agree to a certain extent. It does depend on which Nordic deity but in my experience they certainly do not micromanage however they do help when called upon. I personally believe that the gods interact with you according to your consciousness and how you view them. Everybody's situation and experiences with the gods can and will be vastly different.

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                #8
                Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                Originally posted by Geroth View Post
                I agree to a certain extent. It does depend on which Nordic deity but in my experience they certainly do not micromanage however they do help when called upon. I personally believe that the gods interact with you according to your consciousness and how you view them. Everybody's situation and experiences with the gods can and will be vastly different.
                Hmm, interesting. Well, the gods I am interested in for the most part are Thor, Frigg, Sif and Tiwaz if that helps anybody. I've got to be honest I dislike micromanaging by anybody, not just deities so that's fine by me. Having said that however I do like deities who will at least assist you in your life to a degree, otherwise I think, what's the point?

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                  #9
                  Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                  Originally posted by Ahvoo View Post
                  For those who work with Norse/Germanic deities, do you often feel that the gods are quite distant, uncaring and unapproachable? I have an interest in Germanic gods and goddesses and this is something I have heard about quite a bit by a few others who honor them. Is this your experience?
                  In my experience, it depends largely on who you are, who the gods are, and how you worship. For the most part, Northern deities don't hold hands or mamby pamby their worshippers... they appreciate someone who can stand on their own two feet. They tend to spend more energy on those who form reciprocal relationships rather than those who just pray for help... to a certain extent, you get out what you put in.

                  Originally posted by Ahvoo View Post
                  Hmm, interesting. Well, the gods I am interested in for the most part are Thor, Frigg, Sif and Tiwaz if that helps anybody. I've got to be honest I dislike micromanaging by anybody, not just deities so that's fine by me.
                  The only one of those I've worked with myself is Frigg, who does not seem distant to me. But my definition of 'distant' may be different... I approach deities from a contractual relationship sort of place, often with a personal reference from the deity I am sworn to. I don't go to Frigg to be mothered or nurtured or aided, I go to her to learn from her. I only receive my lessons if I've done my background work and paid my fee (so to speak), and if I haven't done those things then I don't get my lesson. Frigg will teach me for a fee, if I show up and put in the work I'm asked to put in, but I'm sure if I sat down and asked her to come to me and help me with my life for nothing more than a once-off votive offering, I'd get turned away. I suppose some people would consider that to be 'distant', but I don't. I experience Frigg as a calm, graceful, elegant, hospitable deity... she is gracious and welcoming but under that you can feel that she has an iron resolve. She has a capacity for warmth and nurturing, but it's reserved for her family and close friends... the rest of us get the gracious Queen of Asgardh. If you go to her expecting a nurturing mother deity you are liable to feel that she is 'distant' unless you are a regular devotee who desperately needs her protection.

                  Originally posted by Ahvoo View Post
                  Having said that however I do like deities who will at least assist you in your life to a degree, otherwise I think, what's the point?
                  Honestly, this attitude is liable to get you the 'distant' feeling from most deities. They don't exist to help us. They don't exist to run around after us making our lives easier. They have far better things to be doing. Northern deities are some of the least likely to provide you with assistance in your life unless you are a devoted and valued worshipper... which means you have to send them a lot of energy on a consistent and regular basis. Normally, if you don't hold up your end of the bargain, they wont bother. If you're after someone who will help you with your life, you're better off working with vaettir who have a vested interest in your family or househould, like Ancesters or husvaettir.

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                    #10
                    Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                    I'm of the opinion (after much observation and research over the years) that (in general) the idea of forming a relationship with personal gods is fairly modern. Not to say that it didn't exist, but that it wasn't the typical experience.
                    Agree with Thalassa. While not qualified as quality research I have discovered the idea of personal relationships owes more to Christianity than it does to archaic heathensim or paganism. More of the assumption that personal relationship with God or the gods / goddesses was less important than proper method's and ceremonies / rituals in archaic times but made humanity and the divine more familial during the later middle ages period. One aspect the printing of the bible in English so everyone could read it and get to know God vice needing the clergy to translate the Latin and tell you how it should be. Sort of appearing during the Protestant Reformation and later Catholic re-reformation more than earlier church doctrine and practices.

                    Appearing, to me anyway, that the only time you really see or saw individual connections was more to the heroes and the heroic sagas, edda's and tales in general. Yet to the common person they were more often removed and some what aloof. So while the god, goddess might have a chosen favorite and gave them considerable aide, guidance, etc that was the exception vice the norm for human - divine relationships.

                    Though I can't rule out Gnostic influence of we are made in God's image there for mankind is godlike and closer to God as we are formed of the same stuff. Sort of pushing that familial line of reasoning and making man more than just a subservient but implying some level or degree of equality. Not something usually found in the archaic cults and such.
                    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                      #11
                      Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                      Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                      In my experience, it depends largely on who you are, who the gods are, and how you worship. For the most part, Northern deities don't hold hands or mamby pamby their worshippers... they appreciate someone who can stand on their own two feet. They tend to spend more energy on those who form reciprocal relationships rather than those who just pray for help... to a certain extent, you get out what you put in.
                      I'd expect that would be the case for deities from most pantheons.


                      Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                      I experience Frigg as a calm, graceful, elegant, hospitable deity... she is gracious and welcoming but under that you can feel that she has an iron resolve. She has a capacity for warmth and nurturing, but it's reserved for her family and close friends... the rest of us get the gracious Queen of Asgardh. If you go to her expecting a nurturing mother deity you are liable to feel that she is 'distant' unless you are a regular devotee who desperately needs her protection.
                      Funnily enough, even though I have not worshiped her in the sense, I have always had the feeling of her being a nurturing divine mother figure.



                      Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                      Honestly, this attitude is liable to get you the 'distant' feeling from most deities. They don't exist to help us. They don't exist to run around after us making our lives easier. They have far better things to be doing. Northern deities are some of the least likely to provide you with assistance in your life unless you are a devoted and valued worshipper... which means you have to send them a lot of energy on a consistent and regular basis.
                      You make a good point. I don't know, maybe I am looking in the wrong direction when it comes to deities and maybe the Nordic/Saxon pantheon is not for me but the way I think is if we put in the work such as setting up an altar, giving regular offerings etc. and we get next to nothing out of it, what is the point to it all? Aren't we just wasting time, money and energy?

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                        #12
                        Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                        Originally posted by Ahvoo View Post
                        .. You make a good point. I don't know, maybe I am looking in the wrong direction when it comes to deities and maybe the Nordic/Saxon pantheon is not for me but the way I think is if we put in the work such as setting up an altar, giving regular offerings etc. and we get next to nothing out of it, what is the point to it all? Aren't we just wasting time, money and energy?
                        I would guess the question then becomes what do you expect from your god / goddess / GOD? If you believe, pray to, make offerings to them simply because you expect something in return then what's that say. I suppose one could compare it to do you look for friends simply because they can give you something in return for your friendship? If that is your truth then seems pretty shallow if you think about it. Going through life and doing things simply based upon what you get back from it.

                        Imagine telling your girlfriend, spouse, significant other their only here because of what you get from them and give them an indicator of what their tangible worth is to you. Bet that would work out really well for you (collective you not OP specifically).
                        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                          #13
                          Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                          Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                          I would guess the question then becomes what do you expect from your god / goddess / GOD? If you believe, pray to, make offerings to them simply because you expect something in return then what's that say. I suppose one could compare it to do you look for friends simply because they can give you something in return for your friendship? If that is your truth then seems pretty shallow if you think about it. Going through life and doing things simply based upon what you get back from it.

                          Imagine telling your girlfriend, spouse, significant other their only here because of what you get from them and give them an indicator of what their tangible worth is to you. Bet that would work out really well for you (collective you not OP specifically).
                          In my opinion, the relationship with a deity often does compare with those of romantic partners or friends to a certain extent. After all with a girlfriend, she loves you in return or she would not be with you, a relationship cannot work when one is interested and the other isn't. Friends are friends because they like hanging around you, they enjoy your company or have similar interests or experiences. A mutual affection, a give and take. If one partner gives, gives, gives and gets nothing back people feel taken advantage, get bored and/or become bitter and resentful and they eventually move on. Relationships like this never work and are unsustainable in the long term.

                          The same goes with a deity, if you are putting in the work and you don't notice anything different in your life from the time before you began honoring a certain god/gods, people eventually lose interest as they don't feel it has a need or purpose in their lives and they move on to other deities or quit spirituality altogether.

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                            #14
                            Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                            Originally posted by Ahvoo View Post
                            In my opinion, the relationship with a deity often does compare with those of romantic partners or friends to a certain extent. After all with a girlfriend, she loves you in return or she would not be with you, a relationship cannot work when one is interested and the other isn't. Friends are friends because they like hanging around you, they enjoy your company or have similar interests or experiences. A mutual affection, a give and take. If one partner gives, gives, gives and gets nothing back people feel taken advantage, get bored and/or become bitter and resentful and they eventually move on. Relationships like this never work and are unsustainable in the long term.

                            The same goes with a deity, if you are putting in the work and you don't notice anything different in your life from the time before you began honoring a certain god/gods, people eventually lose interest as they don't feel it has a need or purpose in their lives and they move on to other deities or quit spirituality altogether.
                            Hm, so by default you seem to be implying that the wreck you avoided, the money you came into, the sense of dread or foreboding that made you go left vice right is not enough of a return. So a one time thing that benefits or saves you is not as important and them playing dog and pony for you on a daily basis? Sorry to me that sounds to much like I'm special and you have to treat me as special so I know I am special. That's to much ego and hubris to me.

                            Give you a story. My grandsons were born way early and the doctors were certain they would never survive. I prayed to my divinities and both lived. One was said would never walk, he walks today with the aid of crutches and pretty good indicators he'll learn to walk without them. Both were said they'd be mentally handicaped yet that didn't happen either. My youngest son was in a horrific accident and ejected from the wreckage and tossed down the road. His only injuries were some minor glass cuts on his scalp and scrapped up knee's yet the cop who was behind them when he came out swore he was dead.

                            I'll take my uncaring goddesses and gods who don't appear to be patting me on the head and telling me they are there. They've always been there when needed not just because I need confirmation that they are there. I suppose on some level I equate it to paying for insurance, I hope I never need to use it but I pay for it so it is there when I do need to use it, even if only once in my entire life time.
                            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                              #15
                              Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

                              Shrug, if you're putting in the effort and there's no change in your life then either

                              a) you're doing it wrong

                              Or

                              B) you should look at other paths

                              This isn't an issue of deities caring or not though. It applies to any philosophy. If a path doesn't improve you as a person, if the experience of walking it doesn't affect the way you experience life then either you're doing it wrong or you're not on a path that works for you. Pick whichever you find more likely and act accordingly.

                              Well technically there's also

                              C) Welcome to the Dark Night of the Soul but that trial disguised as a cluster-f*** will change you. You just won't like the experience.
                              life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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