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Machine Takes on Sword Master

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    #16
    Re: Machine Takes on Sword Master

    Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    The high end chess engine would be the more modern one that uses board patterns rather than the old style that runs through all potential moves, I imagine?

    Yes... one day. But not yet... I'm not saying it is impossible. I was trying to point out how complicated it would be, and how far from it we currently are.

    A machine can be stronger - I don't suppose testicle grabs would work against a machine, although a machine could use them against a human male. And most metals used in industry are stronger than human skin.

    A machine can put up with more than a human. Stab a human in the eye, and the odds of that person being able to fight to a win drop way, way down. Smash a machine sensor and, as long as it has built in redundancy, you haven't done much.

    A machine can be faster, and doesn't tire. People are slow, and do tire.

    But if you build a sword fighting machine today, I will fight it without too much concern...
    Mostly any engine that plays right around a rating of 3000 should do. IIRC, Grand masters play around 2500-2800. How it gets to that strength is an engineering issue, it won't have much impact on a human's odds of beating it. I don't really have any issue with saying competitive sword bots are beyond our current tech. I take more issue with programmed = predictable or a requirement to program infinite knowledge to make a decent sword bot. Programmed only equals predictable if

    1) the programmer wants it to
    Or
    2) you can outthink the machine in it's given specialty

    and while a fight may technically have infinite possible movements, Sword Bot doesn't need to treat them as distinct movements. Sticking to actual sword attacks (because I'm too lazy to handle the others), it needs to plot an incoming object at a certain speed and angle, it needs to decide if this object is a threat and then it needs a decision matrix that allows it to respond efficiently without sacrificing any positional advantage needlessly. There's a lot of math involved in multiple parts of the program but once you've done the math (provided you do it right, some programmers are lazy), it can be set to work against any incoming object that your bot is physically capable of responding too. Once you leave pure sword blows, grappling and other issues pop up but these can also be reduced to equations. Long ass, messy equations that hurt my head to think about but still numbers for a processor to crunch.
    Last edited by MaskedOne; 11 Jun 2015, 07:46. Reason: typo
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #17
      Re: Machine Takes on Sword Master

      I still don't want a swordbot that can't do what Mrs P mentioned...

      and even then its questionable.



      Perhaps unnecessairly pessimistic and alarmist, but here's why.
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #18
        Re: Machine Takes on Sword Master

        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
        ...and while a fight may technically have infinite possible movements, Sword Bot doesn't need to treat them as distinct movements. Sticking to actual sword attacks (because I'm too lazy to handle the others), it needs to plot an incoming object at a certain speed and angle, it needs to decide if this object is a threat and then it needs a decision matrix that allows it to respond efficiently without sacrificing any positional advantage needlessly...
        I'll buy that. You k now far more about this kind of thing than I do.

        I'm trying to figure out how humans do it, because (obviously) humans don't actually learn an infinite variety of moves either.

        I suspect that the programing would be so complex that it would be faster and easier to teach a machine how to fight (as if it were a person) then copy the program and repeat it in other machines...?
        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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          #19
          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
          I still don't want a swordbot that can't do what Mrs P mentioned...

          and even then its questionable.



          Perhaps unnecessairly pessimistic and alarmist, but here's why.
          That's a completely higher level of migraine. A sword bot that slices and dices human martial artists in record time is liable to be easier to program than paper-clip-apolypse bot.

          Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
          I'll buy that. You k now far more about this kind of thing than I do.

          I'm trying to figure out how humans do it, because (obviously) humans don't actually learn an infinite variety of moves either.

          I suspect that the programing would be so complex that it would be faster and easier to teach a machine how to fight (as if it were a person) then copy the program and repeat it in other machines...?
          It depends on if we crack learning computers soon. If we crack learning computers in the next decade then quite possibly. Otherwise, brute forcing the equations is long and annoying as hell but it doesn't require a revolution in software development. You'll need swordsmen involved either way though to study how they move and to test your programs.
          Last edited by MaskedOne; 11 Jun 2015, 08:32.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


          Comment

            #20
            Re: Machine Takes on Sword Master

            And we end up with this fro Disney...
            YouTube Walt Disney Fantasia Mickey The Sorcerer's Apprentice(so much fun)

            https://youtu.be/T8gOh0wEgLg
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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              #21
              Re: Machine Takes on Sword Master

              In the Robot arena,the main restraint is power,without that the robot is just a tin statue. If they perfect a portable power source that can be recharged on the fly without stopping(wireless power transmission) and they are almost there,trying to recreate Tesla's broadcast power(electricity)

              See here wireless power transmission.

              http://www.ted.com/talks/eric_giler_...ty?language=en
              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




              sigpic

              my new page here,let me know what you think.


              nothing but the shadow of what was

              witchvox
              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

              Comment

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