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    #16
    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    I am still not clear on just what Gluten is,I hear and read about it,but still I have no idea what exactly it is...also what the heck are trans fats?????
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    sigpic

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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      #17
      Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

      Originally posted by anunitu View Post
      also what the heck are trans fats?????
      fats that have decided to wear skirts and lipstick instead of pants and mustaches.
      Satan is my spirit animal

      Comment


        #18
        Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

        Thank you so much for that image Duce,its not like my mind is a nightmare to other people already....
        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




        sigpic

        my new page here,let me know what you think.


        nothing but the shadow of what was

        witchvox
        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

        Comment


          #19
          Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          fats that have decided to wear skirts and lipstick instead of pants and mustaches.
          Lol. Ah the human body is a strange thing indeed. Apparently trans fats are more complex than I had originally thought too.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
            Don't get me on the gluten train. Everyone and their nana suddenly is 'allergic' to gluten. Ask them what it is and they think 'wheat'. I feel bad for the people who really are allergic. I mean do you need to say gluten free shampoo? Or that water is gluten free? Give me a break. How come homeless people or people in third world countries don't have these 'allergies'?

            (takes down my soap box. I spot the sniper!)::
            Haven't you seen South Park?? Gluten is dangerous stuff dude!

            They covered it on a series called 'Rip off Britain, food'. Apparently unless you are a genuine celiac, opting for gluten free foods can actually be less healthy than just having the gluten!

            My beef with diet fads (sorry.. there I go again with my poor choice of words..), is with white rice. There is nothing at all wrong with it. I wish people would stop saying I have to eat only brown rice to be healthy. Sure, there's a bit more fiber and nutrition, but as part of a balanced meal, white rice is fantastically good for you.

            But.. I'm just going off topic now..
            夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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              #21
              Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

              My parents follow a paleo diet. My father has lost 20 lbs in the last year, my mom lost around 60-75. Paleo is removing any gluten products from your diet. They seem a lot healthier and the numbers show.
              "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
              And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
              They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
              The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
              - Finn's Saga

              http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

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                #22
                Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                Are we seriously having this debate AGAIN?

                I gotta be honest and say that I really can't be bothered pulling out my death-is-a-part-of-my-spirituality speech yet again, nor my I-can't-physically-be-healthy-without-animal-protein speech. So here's the short version...

                I need animal protein to survive in a healthy state. I have medically diagnosed issues that preclude me from being healthy on a vegan diet. This completely ruins the 'humans aren't designed for meat eating' argument in respects to my personal situation. I'll never be healthy without meat.

                My spirituality includes a very profound respect for life and death. For ALL life, not just the animals. I've waxed lyrical about this in a number of threads.

                If you want to argue ethics, lets talk about the loss of life and environmental impact of the agricultural industry. Let's talk about unethically sourced palm oil. Let's talk about pesticides. Let's talk about monocrops. If you want to use emotionally charged words like 'rape' and 'child abuse', let's talk about the rape and abuse of the land.

                I hate the meat industry. I hate the egg industry. I've seen these things first hand and I know exactly what happens. But I also hate the agricultural industry and know exactly what happens there. I am under no illusions about where my food and consumable products come from.

                And I understand that being an ethical person is NOT about swapping one unethical practice for another and deluding myself about the realities of my choices.

                I respect other people's lifestyle choices. I don't care what any of you eat. But I do not respect being told that I am an unethical person because I eat meat. And I find it very difficult to respect poorly researched and biased arguments supporting that statement.



                (And yes, that was the short and snippy version... most of you have seen the long and diplomatic version far too many times).

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                  I read the first 4 links in the OP, but the last 3, I just couldn't. Eyes kept crossing over each other...

                  I really don't care for all the vegan diet this and vegan diet that BS that we've covered a million times on this forum - and all the threads end up the same, so let's just cut the shit and stop arguing about Vegetarians vs Carnivores. (Yup, I went red)

                  What I do want to read more about is how Veganism affects people's spiritual lives. And, (Watchful Wanderer, please correct me if I'm wrong but...) that is what I believe the intent of this topic is about. I'd like to hear more about your experience. I'm not vegan so I don't know how to relate to your point of view.
                  �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
                  ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
                  Sneak Attack
                  Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

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                    #24
                    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                    Originally posted by Ljubezen View Post
                    I refuse to be anti-anything; mostly because I don't think I could give up bread or cheese...

                    Hmm... cheese sticks...::::
                    Easy fix:

                    Become A Zombie Crew patron: http://bit.ly/SupportTVZVEGAN ZOMBIE E-Book https://bit.ly/34WcA9wT shirts http://bit.ly/1ploouoSubscribe to The Vegan Zombieht...


                    (And yes, I have cooked and tried this, its pretty delicious.



                    Also, Paleo is just the standard American diet, no difference. I just find it hilarious that people are treating it as if it was different.

                    Also, for those that can't handle straight forward bluntness or the lack of bulls**t sugercoating of words, leave now. Because any sugercoating or lip service shan't be uttered by me, nothing but honesty, no matter how much it hurts to hear.

                    Also, getting a kick from some of the things said here.
                    Last edited by Watchful Wanderer; 24 Jun 2015, 22:53.
                    "As long as humans continue to be the ruthless destroyer of other beings, we will never know health or peace. For as long as people massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, those who sow the seed of murder and pain will never reap joy or love." - Pythagoras


                    "I too shall lie in the dust when I am dead, but now let me win noble renown." - Homer, The Iliad

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                      Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                      Are we seriously having this debate AGAIN?

                      I gotta be honest and say that I really can't be bothered pulling out my death-is-a-part-of-my-spirituality speech yet again, nor my I-can't-physically-be-healthy-without-animal-protein speech. So here's the short version...

                      I need animal protein to survive in a healthy state. I have medically diagnosed issues that preclude me from being healthy on a vegan diet. This completely ruins the 'humans aren't designed for meat eating' argument in respects to my personal situation. I'll never be healthy without meat.

                      My spirituality includes a very profound respect for life and death. For ALL life, not just the animals. I've waxed lyrical about this in a number of threads.

                      If you want to argue ethics, lets talk about the loss of life and environmental impact of the agricultural industry. Let's talk about unethically sourced palm oil. Let's talk about pesticides. Let's talk about monocrops. If you want to use emotionally charged words like 'rape' and 'child abuse', let's talk about the rape and abuse of the land.

                      I hate the meat industry. I hate the egg industry. I've seen these things first hand and I know exactly what happens. But I also hate the agricultural industry and know exactly what happens there. I am under no illusions about where my food and consumable products come from.

                      And I understand that being an ethical person is NOT about swapping one unethical practice for another and deluding myself about the realities of my choices.

                      I respect other people's lifestyle choices. I don't care what any of you eat. But I do not respect being told that I am an unethical person because I eat meat. And I find it very difficult to respect poorly researched and biased arguments supporting that statement.



                      (And yes, that was the short and snippy version... most of you have seen the long and diplomatic version far too many times).

                      This.

                      I don't give 2 piles of steaming dog poo what (universal) you ingest (or don't) or the reasons for why you do or don't or what buzz or spiritual fulfillment (universal) you get from it. With the exception of being a cannibal. I expect you to have that same regard for what I ingest. If you don't, I seriously question your priorities and your sanity.


                      If you feel that being a vegan makes you a better Pagan, a better person, or whatever...fine, good for you for finding somethng that fulfills you. Go for it, but don't assume that it is going to fulfill me. And don't assume that I don't "know better" or understand your POV (I understand it just fine, and I disagree). Being a vegan makes me sick. Physically ill. So did being a vegetarian after a while. And I would know because I was one for about 8 years. And I did it very healthfully, with the assistance of a nutritionist who was also a vegetarian.

                      I've found that I actually like the occasional steak. I find that ethically a-ok. Infact, I find that it enriches my beliefs as a Pagan--"give life with humility, take life with compassion" being one of my centeral tenets. I get my meat from a lovely local and sustainable Quiverfull family (I may not like their beliefs, but their spicy breakfast sausages are delicious...as are their duck eggs and fresh mozarella cheese). I find it spiritually inspiring to be able to thank them, and the lives of their farm animals for sustenance, and to use my money to support local farming.

                      TBH, there is not much I find more uninspiring within the Pagan community than the strong tendency to over-romanticize Nature and overly villify humanity, which operates on the same principles of nature.


                      Also...because bad science does more damage to the world than meat eating--for the ever loving gods, please people, stop applying human agency to other animals. This is about dolphins, but it applies to lactating cows too. It would also be nice is people would do some research into the evolution of early man and stop with the "this is what early man did" so its "more natural" (or whatever) propaganda (and this comes from both "sides").
                      Last edited by thalassa; 25 Jun 2015, 03:50.
                      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                      sigpic

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                        #26
                        Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                        WatchfulWanderer has been banned from this thread for violation of Juni's red. Direct disregard of an administrators direction is grounds for removal from a thread. Any questions? Please direct them to Juni or I.
                        We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

                        I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
                        It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
                        Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
                        -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

                        Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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                          #27
                          Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                          I am good with every ones choices as far as food is concerned. Live and let live,and remember,if you do not have something nice to say,then quiet is the best option.
                          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                          sigpic

                          my new page here,let me know what you think.


                          nothing but the shadow of what was

                          witchvox
                          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                            I am a vegetarian, but it has no bearing on my spirituality. In fact, I feel the opposite. Should I consume meat, I feel it would bring me closer to nature and closer to the earth, because I would be physically consuming the earth, to a greater extent than I do now.

                            But I don't. Because meat tastes bad (for the most part).


                            Mostly art.

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                              #29
                              Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                              I eat meat,but not all that much. I seldom eat beef,mainly chicken and pork. Beef to me is to "Heavy" and I believe it takes more time to digest. I like potatoes and cornflower,and broccoli to,not much for carrots,but Bananas I like,most fruit. cereal(bran flakes,with raisin or not) dairy,mainly creamer for coffee,and milk for cereal. some chocolate but not a lot,coco to drink at times. So kinda a balanced diet..I do not do McDonald(once or twice a year if I am out and need to eat)
                              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                              sigpic

                              my new page here,let me know what you think.


                              nothing but the shadow of what was

                              witchvox
                              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                                Originally posted by thalassa View Post

                                Also...because bad science does more damage to the world than meat eating--for the ever loving gods, please people, stop applying human agency to other animals. This is about dolphins, but it applies to lactating cows too. It would also be nice is people would do some research into the evolution of early man and stop with the "this is what early man did" so its "more natural" (or whatever) propaganda (and this comes from both "sides").
                                Were you including my panda example in there? If so, I was just being p*ssy about the 'we don't naturally eat meat' thing. I was trying to illustrate that just because a species evolved from an earlier ancestor, it doesn't mean we have to all climb back into the trees.

                                As for 'our ancestors', that really depends on what the person speaking means. Lets assume that we all accept now that Australopithecus afarensis IS the common ancestor of all hominid species (it was still contested when I was at uni, and the only core textbook I didn't sell after graduation is Wallace, Sanders and Ferl, and that was already 5 years old when I was at uni, but the evidence was quite compelling even then). Then something must have happened in her evolutionary past that made selecting for upright locomotion necessary. It wasn't 'lets walk on 2 legs because then we can make tools and go hunt us an antelope', evolution doesn't work like that. There are of course still many theories, but I'm keen on the aquatic ape hypothesis', because it would have been pushed by an immediate need, and then allow traits for better and better upright posture to be selected for. If this is what happened, then they most likely entered the water in search of shellfish and insect larvae (probably not fish because we never seem to have had the same pointed and elongated canine teeth you see in modern chimps). If so, then surely our ancestors didn't just jump from berries to shellfish. They were surely already eating small invertebrates if they looked into the water and thought.. 'I could totally eat that'. So I do believe I can back up my opinion that before we had fire, which of course changed everything, we were likely eating bugs. Even if the aquatic ape hypothesis is rubbish, to have started using tools and eventually fire, we had to be feeding our brains on a richer energy source than plant matter, so I still say bugs all the way.

                                That said, while it is argued that we didn't have the anatomy to handle a raw meat diet, I'm sure Bear Grills would beg to differ (I'd post an amusing video* here, but saying as it shows Bear killing a pig and eating a raw pork chop, I think it would be in very poor taste in a vegan thread.. I'd have been in a worse state than that pig by the time they'd finished with me).

                                I thought about making this into a separate thread but wasn't sure if it would just offer a pathway for the 'why vegans/meat eaters suck' conversation to migrate. Feel free to move this if you prefer though.

                                *wait wait.. I'm not saying the pig part is amusing.. killing pigs, even for food, isn't a laughing matter.. I meant the video generally.. phew. That was close..
                                夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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