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Thread: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

  1. #21
    Copper Member Norse_Angel's Avatar
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    My parents follow a paleo diet. My father has lost 20 lbs in the last year, my mom lost around 60-75. Paleo is removing any gluten products from your diet. They seem a lot healthier and the numbers show.
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    Are we seriously having this debate AGAIN?

    I gotta be honest and say that I really can't be bothered pulling out my death-is-a-part-of-my-spirituality speech yet again, nor my I-can't-physically-be-healthy-without-animal-protein speech. So here's the short version...

    I need animal protein to survive in a healthy state. I have medically diagnosed issues that preclude me from being healthy on a vegan diet. This completely ruins the 'humans aren't designed for meat eating' argument in respects to my personal situation. I'll never be healthy without meat.

    My spirituality includes a very profound respect for life and death. For ALL life, not just the animals. I've waxed lyrical about this in a number of threads.

    If you want to argue ethics, lets talk about the loss of life and environmental impact of the agricultural industry. Let's talk about unethically sourced palm oil. Let's talk about pesticides. Let's talk about monocrops. If you want to use emotionally charged words like 'rape' and 'child abuse', let's talk about the rape and abuse of the land.

    I hate the meat industry. I hate the egg industry. I've seen these things first hand and I know exactly what happens. But I also hate the agricultural industry and know exactly what happens there. I am under no illusions about where my food and consumable products come from.

    And I understand that being an ethical person is NOT about swapping one unethical practice for another and deluding myself about the realities of my choices.

    I respect other people's lifestyle choices. I don't care what any of you eat. But I do not respect being told that I am an unethical person because I eat meat. And I find it very difficult to respect poorly researched and biased arguments supporting that statement.



    (And yes, that was the short and snippy version... most of you have seen the long and diplomatic version far too many times).

  3. #23
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    I read the first 4 links in the OP, but the last 3, I just couldn't. Eyes kept crossing over each other...

    I really don't care for all the vegan diet this and vegan diet that BS that we've covered a million times on this forum - and all the threads end up the same, so let's just cut the shit and stop arguing about Vegetarians vs Carnivores. (Yup, I went red)

    What I do want to read more about is how Veganism affects people's spiritual lives. And, (Watchful Wanderer, please correct me if I'm wrong but...) that is what I believe the intent of this topic is about. I'd like to hear more about your experience. I'm not vegan so I don't know how to relate to your point of view.
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  4. #24
    Punishment Detail Watchful Wanderer's Avatar
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ljubezen View Post
    I refuse to be anti-anything; mostly because I don't think I could give up bread or cheese...

    Hmm... cheese sticks...
    Easy fix:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnyTZJ9tTsw

    (And yes, I have cooked and tried this, its pretty delicious.

    http://pixellant.com/adaptt/humans-herbivores/

    Also, Paleo is just the standard American diet, no difference. I just find it hilarious that people are treating it as if it was different.

    Also, for those that can't handle straight forward bluntness or the lack of bulls**t sugercoating of words, leave now. Because any sugercoating or lip service shan't be uttered by me, nothing but honesty, no matter how much it hurts to hear.

    Also, getting a kick from some of the things said here.
    Last edited by Watchful Wanderer; 24 Jun 2015 at 22:53.
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  5. #25
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    Are we seriously having this debate AGAIN?

    I gotta be honest and say that I really can't be bothered pulling out my death-is-a-part-of-my-spirituality speech yet again, nor my I-can't-physically-be-healthy-without-animal-protein speech. So here's the short version...

    I need animal protein to survive in a healthy state. I have medically diagnosed issues that preclude me from being healthy on a vegan diet. This completely ruins the 'humans aren't designed for meat eating' argument in respects to my personal situation. I'll never be healthy without meat.

    My spirituality includes a very profound respect for life and death. For ALL life, not just the animals. I've waxed lyrical about this in a number of threads.

    If you want to argue ethics, lets talk about the loss of life and environmental impact of the agricultural industry. Let's talk about unethically sourced palm oil. Let's talk about pesticides. Let's talk about monocrops. If you want to use emotionally charged words like 'rape' and 'child abuse', let's talk about the rape and abuse of the land.

    I hate the meat industry. I hate the egg industry. I've seen these things first hand and I know exactly what happens. But I also hate the agricultural industry and know exactly what happens there. I am under no illusions about where my food and consumable products come from.

    And I understand that being an ethical person is NOT about swapping one unethical practice for another and deluding myself about the realities of my choices.

    I respect other people's lifestyle choices. I don't care what any of you eat. But I do not respect being told that I am an unethical person because I eat meat. And I find it very difficult to respect poorly researched and biased arguments supporting that statement.



    (And yes, that was the short and snippy version... most of you have seen the long and diplomatic version far too many times).

    This.

    I don't give 2 piles of steaming dog poo what (universal) you ingest (or don't) or the reasons for why you do or don't or what buzz or spiritual fulfillment (universal) you get from it. With the exception of being a cannibal. I expect you to have that same regard for what I ingest. If you don't, I seriously question your priorities and your sanity.


    If you feel that being a vegan makes you a better Pagan, a better person, or whatever...fine, good for you for finding somethng that fulfills you. Go for it, but don't assume that it is going to fulfill me. And don't assume that I don't "know better" or understand your POV (I understand it just fine, and I disagree). Being a vegan makes me sick. Physically ill. So did being a vegetarian after a while. And I would know because I was one for about 8 years. And I did it very healthfully, with the assistance of a nutritionist who was also a vegetarian.

    I've found that I actually like the occasional steak. I find that ethically a-ok. Infact, I find that it enriches my beliefs as a Pagan--"give life with humility, take life with compassion" being one of my centeral tenets. I get my meat from a lovely local and sustainable Quiverfull family (I may not like their beliefs, but their spicy breakfast sausages are delicious...as are their duck eggs and fresh mozarella cheese). I find it spiritually inspiring to be able to thank them, and the lives of their farm animals for sustenance, and to use my money to support local farming.

    TBH, there is not much I find more uninspiring within the Pagan community than the strong tendency to over-romanticize Nature and overly villify humanity, which operates on the same principles of nature.


    Also...because bad science does more damage to the world than meat eating--for the ever loving gods, please people, stop applying human agency to other animals. This is about dolphins, but it applies to lactating cows too. It would also be nice is people would do some research into the evolution of early man and stop with the "this is what early man did" so its "more natural" (or whatever) propaganda (and this comes from both "sides").
    Last edited by thalassa; 25 Jun 2015 at 03:50.
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    WatchfulWanderer has been banned from this thread for violation of Juni's red. Direct disregard of an administrators direction is grounds for removal from a thread. Any questions? Please direct them to Juni or I.
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    Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
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  7. #27
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    I am good with every ones choices as far as food is concerned. Live and let live,and remember,if you do not have something nice to say,then quiet is the best option.
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    I am a vegetarian, but it has no bearing on my spirituality. In fact, I feel the opposite. Should I consume meat, I feel it would bring me closer to nature and closer to the earth, because I would be physically consuming the earth, to a greater extent than I do now.

    But I don't. Because meat tastes bad (for the most part).
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  9. #29
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    I eat meat,but not all that much. I seldom eat beef,mainly chicken and pork. Beef to me is to "Heavy" and I believe it takes more time to digest. I like potatoes and cornflower,and broccoli to,not much for carrots,but Bananas I like,most fruit. cereal(bran flakes,with raisin or not) dairy,mainly creamer for coffee,and milk for cereal. some chocolate but not a lot,coco to drink at times. So kinda a balanced diet..I do not do McDonald(once or twice a year if I am out and need to eat)
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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  10. #30
    Supporter Jembru's Avatar
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    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post

    Also...because bad science does more damage to the world than meat eating--for the ever loving gods, please people, stop applying human agency to other animals. This is about dolphins, but it applies to lactating cows too. It would also be nice is people would do some research into the evolution of early man and stop with the "this is what early man did" so its "more natural" (or whatever) propaganda (and this comes from both "sides").
    Were you including my panda example in there? If so, I was just being p*ssy about the 'we don't naturally eat meat' thing. I was trying to illustrate that just because a species evolved from an earlier ancestor, it doesn't mean we have to all climb back into the trees.

    As for 'our ancestors', that really depends on what the person speaking means. Lets assume that we all accept now that Australopithecus afarensis IS the common ancestor of all hominid species (it was still contested when I was at uni, and the only core textbook I didn't sell after graduation is Wallace, Sanders and Ferl, and that was already 5 years old when I was at uni, but the evidence was quite compelling even then). Then something must have happened in her evolutionary past that made selecting for upright locomotion necessary. It wasn't 'lets walk on 2 legs because then we can make tools and go hunt us an antelope', evolution doesn't work like that. There are of course still many theories, but I'm keen on the aquatic ape hypothesis', because it would have been pushed by an immediate need, and then allow traits for better and better upright posture to be selected for. If this is what happened, then they most likely entered the water in search of shellfish and insect larvae (probably not fish because we never seem to have had the same pointed and elongated canine teeth you see in modern chimps). If so, then surely our ancestors didn't just jump from berries to shellfish. They were surely already eating small invertebrates if they looked into the water and thought.. 'I could totally eat that'. So I do believe I can back up my opinion that before we had fire, which of course changed everything, we were likely eating bugs. Even if the aquatic ape hypothesis is rubbish, to have started using tools and eventually fire, we had to be feeding our brains on a richer energy source than plant matter, so I still say bugs all the way.

    That said, while it is argued that we didn't have the anatomy to handle a raw meat diet, I'm sure Bear Grills would beg to differ (I'd post an amusing video* here, but saying as it shows Bear killing a pig and eating a raw pork chop, I think it would be in very poor taste in a vegan thread.. I'd have been in a worse state than that pig by the time they'd finished with me).

    I thought about making this into a separate thread but wasn't sure if it would just offer a pathway for the 'why vegans/meat eaters suck' conversation to migrate. Feel free to move this if you prefer though.

    *wait wait.. I'm not saying the pig part is amusing.. killing pigs, even for food, isn't a laughing matter.. I meant the video generally.. phew. That was close..
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