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    #31
    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

    Originally posted by Jembru View Post
    Were you including my panda example in there? If so, I was just being p*ssy about the 'we don't naturally eat meat' thing. I was trying to illustrate that just because a species evolved from an earlier ancestor, it doesn't mean we have to all climb back into the trees.
    It was the cow rape comment. Non-human animals can't rape. Rape implies the ability to conceptualize consent. They can do things that our narrow minded humanness would consider looked like rape if we applied it to ourselves, but cows can't get raped. Sure, they can be the recipient of what is possibly unwanted sex, but since there's no way to conceptualize cow desire, that's a bit of a moot point too.

    Except I was at work and didn't want to type "rape" 50 times and put myself on a watchlist, lol.



    As for evolution and ancestry, for the past 80,000 years or so, we have evolved and adapted to find whatever calories we can in whatever environment we come from--for at least the past 10,000 of them, we've been able to domesticate many of those forms of nutrition...these two things in concert are part of what makes our cultures and part of what drives our cultural evolution as well. Heck, there are several groups of humans that have had almost entirely carnivorous diets without out problems...and I'm willing to bet that before missionaries, their spirituality and their diet had quite a bit in common. After all, one of my favorite goddesses created marine mammals from her body to feed her people...
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #32
      Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

      What I eat has little impact on my spirituality personally. I have omnivorous friends, I have vegan friends, and my current love interest is vegan herself. She's a pagan and her diet does have an impact on her spirituality.

      So I guess it can be important for some, as for others it is irrelevant, at a spiritual level.

      And morality and ethics are something personal and subjective so...

      Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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        #33
        Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

        I assumed it was the cow rape thing, but I thought I'd clarify just in case. I wish I could remember more that I learnt at uni. I did a module in my second year that shared some practical classes with the anthropologists (mainly physiology). It was so interesting to look at skulls and pelvises from various stages of our evolution, comparing them to modern apes and speculating on what these differences tell us. I remember so little now though. I've been thinking about reading my old textbook through again to refresh my memory. I never used my degree, and if I can't even remember what I learnt there, what were those 3 years for?
        夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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          #34
          Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

          Originally posted by Jembru View Post
          No one has said there is anything wrong with your choice. Just that veganism and paganism don't go hand in hand.
          Yep, exactly. It's a great choice and I think that if you want to live a compassionate, sustainable lifestyle, it's a great way to do it. However, it's not the -only- way to do it

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            #35
            Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

            My girlfriend is vegan, and that is partially due to her religion. She also strongly believes in the health benefits. But even beyond that she believes that as a Wiccan she is responsible to do her part in trying to save the environment and in being a compassionate human being. Both of which she feel are strongly represented by being vegan. It takes a significant amount of agriculture to support livestock, much of which could go into growing vegetables we could eat if our meat consumption was less. Livestock also have a significant impact on the environment that would be reduced significantly if we reduced our consumption. Hence, the environment. And compassion? Well the livestock industry is about as far from compassion as you can get. So, for her, being vegan has always been tightly tied to her religion.
            We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

            I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
            It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
            Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
            -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

            Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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              #36
              Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

              Originally posted by Shahaku View Post
              My girlfriend is vegan, and that is partially due to her religion. She also strongly believes in the health benefits. But even beyond that she believes that as a Wiccan she is responsible to do her part in trying to save the environment and in being a compassionate human being. Both of which she feel are strongly represented by being vegan. It takes a significant amount of agriculture to support livestock, much of which could go into growing vegetables we could eat if our meat consumption was less. Livestock also have a significant impact on the environment that would be reduced significantly if we reduced our consumption. Hence, the environment. And compassion? Well the livestock industry is about as far from compassion as you can get. So, for her, being vegan has always been tightly tied to her religion.
              Exactly. I can see why people choose it and I think that if that's how you feel, both in terms of values and spirituality, it really makes sense.

              I do think there are other ways to get to the same point, though. Some people might interpret respecting the earth and compassion as going vegan. Others might choose to buy secondhand or reduce/reuse/recycle and buy sustainable, free-range meat, eggs, and dairy. I really dislike how much both sides argue with each other, because it really shouldn't be about "sides" at all. Compassion and respect for the earth can come in many different forms.

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                #37
                Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                I turn off the computer for most of 3 days and the threads explode...

                I'm still not giving up cheese or bread. :P Because I don't want to. It does kind of boggle my mind how many of these vegetarianism/vegan threads pop up though.

                Anywho, I think I'm going to bow out now since diets aren't really my forte.

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                  #38
                  Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                  Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                  I do think there are other ways to get to the same point, though. Some people might interpret respecting the earth and compassion as going vegan. Others might choose to buy secondhand or reduce/reuse/recycle and buy sustainable, free-range meat, eggs, and dairy. I really dislike how much both sides argue with each other, because it really shouldn't be about "sides" at all. Compassion and respect for the earth can come in many different forms.
                  This.

                  I mean, I could be all "if you buy products with diposable plastics you are an immoral person and a bad Pagan" but that would just make me a jerk. And I'm pretty sure that the accumulated environmental damage of disposable plastics is worse that eating meat.

                  Its not about being a vegan or vegetarian, its about being a lessatarian.
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                    #39
                    Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                    The biggest issue I have with these sorts of things is how folks are quite ready to keep throwing around the words "compassion" and "compassionate". There seems to be a trend, in general and in this thread, unfortunately. It very much gives the impression that if you are a meat eater, you have none and you are not, respectively. I've known vegans and vegetarians who will actively verbally attack and attempt to belittle those that do not eat as they do. Is that compassion? And I've known omnivorous folks who spend all of their time helping those less fortunate and work in animal rescue facilities. So is their compassion simply negated because they like steak?

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                      #40
                      Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                      It is hard in this day and age to have any control of things. Yes you can not buy things with plastic,IF you can find them and they are within your budget. The ones that should be doing this are the manufacturers who package them with out driving the price up so high. The extra cost could be the company's "Tithe" to the environment,to help humans survive. Kinda a nature tax..
                      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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                        #41
                        Re: The intersections between Paganism and the Vegan way of living.

                        Originally posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
                        The biggest issue I have with these sorts of things is how folks are quite ready to keep throwing around the words "compassion" and "compassionate". There seems to be a trend, in general and in this thread, unfortunately. It very much gives the impression that if you are a meat eater, you have none and you are not, respectively. I've known vegans and vegetarians who will actively verbally attack and attempt to belittle those that do not eat as they do. Is that compassion? And I've known omnivorous folks who spend all of their time helping those less fortunate and work in animal rescue facilities. So is their compassion simply negated because they like steak?
                        A few of us who have used the word in this thread -are- omnivores....

                        I am an omnivore. I'll still use that word in terms of vegans and vegetarians, because from personal experience, that's why most of them chose their diets. Compassion is also a big part of my spiritual practice, but I have different ways of making it a part of my life.

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