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Thread: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

  1. #21
    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jembru View Post
    WHAT???

    I've heard horror stories of covens that have open ritual sex but it's not something I've heard of in reputable covens around here.
    Eh. This doesn't sound like a horror story.
    Satan is my spirit animal

  2. #22
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    I am getting the feeling that this "Topic" might have the potential to become "One of THOSE" topics,as in plenty of room for "Polite disagreement",so put down the pitchforks and torches and play nice.

    I kinda like the free form approach to pagan beliefs...
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
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  3. #23
    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    Quote Originally Posted by anunitu View Post
    I am getting the feeling that this "Topic" might have the potential to become "One of THOSE" topics,as in plenty of room for "Polite disagreement",so put down the pitchforks and torches and play nice.

    I kinda like the free form approach to pagan beliefs...
    I know, right? Somehow I always thought of Paganism as a very free easy going spiritual way of life. I didn't think of rigid rules. Am I off base?
    Satan is my spirit animal

  4. #24
    Supporter Jembru's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I know, right? Somehow I always thought of Paganism as a very free easy going spiritual way of life. I didn't think of rigid rules. Am I off base?
    Come on.. you know what wiccans are like by now.
    夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

  5. #25
    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jembru View Post
    Come on.. you know what wiccans are like by now.
    scary? ...
    Satan is my spirit animal

  6. #26
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    I am kinda the "If it feels good,do it" type of spiritual person. I have never been a strict rule person....rules are so "BINDING"
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

  7. #27
    Supporter Jembru's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    Quote Originally Posted by anunitu View Post
    I am kinda the "If it feels good,do it" type of spiritual person. I have never been a strict rule person....rules are so "BINDING"
    Usually I am to when it comes to wicca. I don't really like the 'make it up as you go along' approach, but if someone can show their reasoning for why they do what they do, then I'm cool with that. I'd even be cool with a coven, all consenting, that feels the need to have everyone in the room while the HPS and HP perform the great rite. In fact, if you told me this was the norm in the hay day of Gardnarian wicca, based on some of Gardner's other ideas, I could quite believe it. I draw the line at inviting someone un-initiated into the circle to witness that though. By all means have sex in front of friends or strangers.. throw your keys in the bowl if you like.. but please, not in a sacred setting like a wiccan circle. Have some respect. Of course, those coven's that use the great rite as an initiation ritual for first degrees are a whole other flavour of wrong (and this is where the horror stories come from).

    Otherwise.. whatever floats your boat I guess. So long as it's with genuine intent.
    夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

  8. #28
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    I don't think this is really about whether one is Wicca/Catholic/Druid whatever. It's about power. It's about feeling oneself above someone else even though, by rights, there is no way of measuring status.
    It's about saying 'I know something you don't know' with a smug grin on someone's face.
    So my advice is just sod 'em. If you're happy with what you're doing, don't allow another person to make you feel it's wrong. Probably they're NOT all that happy with their path, and a bit jealous that you're happier than them.
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    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

  9. #29
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    Thing is,at least in my understanding of spiritual nature,the idea of the spiritual is to make you happy and content in this cruel world. To find a place of joy and laughter,even as the tragedy of the material world swirls all about. Your "Away" place to rest and re-energize your spirit.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

  10. #30
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Apparently I'm not doing the 'right' 'rites'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    I don't think this is really about whether one is Wicca/Catholic/Druid whatever. It's about power. It's about feeling oneself above someone else even though, by rights, there is no way of measuring status.
    It's about saying 'I know something you don't know' with a smug grin on someone's face.
    So my advice is just sod 'em. If you're happy with what you're doing, don't allow another person to make you feel it's wrong. Probably they're NOT all that happy with their path, and a bit jealous that you're happier than them.

    This is pretty much my opinion of the person Serria encountered...but...with that being said, on the topic of the GR, there's a whole lot that can be said...


    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedOne View Post
    http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/glos...Great_Rite.htm

    The above is a safe for work description of what the Great Rite is Serria. As a Solitary, you won't be performing any variation of it that I'm aware of so meeting the requirements to is sort of a moot point. Even the symbolic version is a two person deal.
    A NSFW (at least on a work network), but really excellent essay on the Great Rite--both its history and the actual rite and the experience of it can be found at hermetic.com/crowley/other/the-wiccan-great-rite-heiros-gamos.html (at least I think that is the right link--I can't get the page at work, so I copied the link from my phone).


    But yeah, you can't do the Great Rite per se, but there are solo analogs one can do.



    Quote Originally Posted by Serria View Post
    Ok. Personally, I just don't like the idea of a high priest and/or priestess. I don't like the idea of someone being more important or above anybody else.

    again, that's just my opinion.
    What Jem said...An HP/HPS isn't more important or above anyone in a good coven. They are just the furthest trained folks--a coven can have more than one HP/HPS. HP/HPS just means 3rd degree, and the 3rd degree mysteries of traditional, covened Wicca, generally include the GR (and usually the real one). Because they are 3rd degree, they are allowed to "hive off" and form a new coven and train new folks. Also, to *do* the real GR, in the coven I was in, you had to be a 3rd degree, because those are the people that have had the training and experience and spiritual development to experience the spiritual possession that occurs in the GR. The GR is pretty much the ultimate ritual in Wicca for a number of reasons, from the amount of energy produced for spiritual workings, to the religious excstacy bit. To see the real GR, you had to be 2nd degree, mostly because the coven was large enough that it was awkward otherwise, and it was something that was done only at the 2nd degree initiation and certain sabbats.



    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedOne View Post
    I'm aware of the symbolic version but don't they still have two participants? One holding the chalice and the other using the Athame. Is there an existing work-around to that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jembru View Post
    I have to agree that I don't know how I could carry out the great rite in token as a solitary (and the great rite actual would be quite a feat!), so it never made it into my solitary practice. I don't think it made much difference to the significance of my rites though. There are a lot of differences between group and solitary work, but I never felt one was better than the other (and when it came to spells, I often found working alone was a lot more effective...).

    I've seen it done with one person...you just put the chalice on the altar, and tweak the symbolism a bit...

    Its not really the same though...tbh, the symbolic GR isn't really the GR either. Its like the difference between grape juice and a nice Italian wine.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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