Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

[Seax_Blade]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

If I work my butt off, the guy next to me works his butt off, and the guy next to him takes it easy, but at the end of the day we all still get what we want, why bother working so hard if the results will be the same?

That is a very good point.

[Domtar]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

I think that's where the idea of combined socialism for base necessities and wellness (people frequently can't work if they're ill/disabled/a child/elderly/mentally ill) and capitalist based incentives for enrichment and enjoyment. Everyone might have access to a doctor, a home even if a small dorm room size, healthy food-- but not everyone needs a pool/yacht/xbox/diamond earring etc and people tend to want these and work for them even in societies with higher levels of socialistic infrastructure.

It's NOT perfect, but it's more just than children starving just to make sure we are punishing single moms for their partner leaving them and not being able to afford daycare/housing/food on a minimum wage job. Heaven forbid a mother have a year long maternity leave to care for and nurse her baby on the government funds rather than through earning it by sex with a husband. There's a lot of research that going back to work within the 6 months or sooner increases depression in mothers and is harder for infants- maternal separation being the tool scientists use to damage mammals when they research animal models of trauma and mental illness. That's how reliable damaging maternal infant bonds are. And while each situation is unique and women should be ALLOWED to go back to work sooner without judgment, or to allow the father to take the role- it's necessary for low income families to have protections in place to do this and at least be allowed to make the choice without starving/losing housing etc.

Those are the kinds of things socialistic protections can provide, while capitalistic incentives will still motivate most people to more than subsistence. If some people want to live in a government provided dorm room with no TV and three meals provided and do absolutely nothing, it would be a more worthy cause than dog shelters (though dog shelters are also worthy causes) and I think people are worth more than dogs even if they are unproductive. In general, having worked homeless services, many homeless have genuine mental health problems and do want to work when they get some stability. NOT ALL, but a high percent do well in housing first programs with counseling and mental health care and are able to work some to help pay their way.

[Munin-Hugin]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

If some people want to live in a government provided dorm room with no TV and three meals provided and do absolutely nothing, it would be a more worthy cause than dog shelters (though dog shelters are also worthy causes) and I think people are worth more than dogs even if they are unproductive.

Here I must utterly and totally disagree with you. If you do nothing, you do not deserve to get anything. Of course, there are exceptions to this, like there are with everything, but as a whole that is, to be blunt, a load of crap. Providing something for nothing inevitably leads to people figuring out other ways to take advantage of the system, thus creating dissension, distrust, and frustration with the system that is in place by those who are making the effort. Why should totally fine and healthy Jimmy be provided with health care, a home, and food if he is just going to sit on his ass all day long? He is providing nothing, so he should be provided nothing. Now, a dog on the other hand, while they do not "work" in the traditional sense, provide a wide array of services to their families, based from their very nature. Protection, companionship, comfort, unconditional love, and so on. I'll take three "worthless" dogs over a useless Jimmy any day.

[Domtar]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

"companionship, comfort, unconditional love, and so on." Many humans do this even when not working a traditional job. In fact these are valuable services that too often we ask women to do for free- caregiving, nurturing, attenting to emotional needs of the family- but we aren't willing to create a structure where they have have financial security or compensation for this. These jobs make minimum wage while therapist jobs make a lot. Ironically what therapists are often doing is trying to make up for a lack of nurturing and care in earlier life that we could just help families have more time to do and understand with their kids. My grandmother lived many years without working, but she loved us all powerfully and that was real contribution and I believe she deserved to live. I have worked with a lot of homeless kids who were never given the chance, many DO have disabilities, developmental trauma, brain damage, PTSD, physical damage, deafness (we had one person who was deaf and also going blind AND homless from foster alumni.

We are so concerned about some guy getting more than what's do that we are willing to spend MORE MONEY to make those few jerks (and they ARE jerks) not take advantage of the system. And then after spending MORE money making sure the tiny bit we are willing to give isn't abused-- we basically make it impossible for people with cognitive damage to get through the loops and paperwork and technical details of the system. The truly needy wind up being the ones most easily knocked out.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

In a perfect nation, dog shelters wouldn't exist. Every pet would have a loving home.

The direction this thread is going is exactly why there can't be a perfect world with humans in it.

[anunitu]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

Darn Hawk,your GOOD!!

[Chessa]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

There's a game at www.nationstates.net where you get to pretty much rule your own country, I think it would be neat if someone built an account based on what we put here, and see what happens to the country

[anunitu]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

The "Your Good" for Hawk was concerning the cartoon link she posted,that had to be hard to find..

[Seax_Blade]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

There's a game at www.nationstates.net where you get to pretty much rule your own country, I think it would be neat if someone built an account based on what we put here, and see what happens to the country

Been so long since I played with nationstates lol.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

The "Your Good" for Hawk was concerning the cartoon link she posted,that had to be hard to find..

Thanks! I know my Bugs Bunny pretty well!!!

[DanieMarie]

Re: Let's create a (hypothetically) perfect nation

There's a game at www.nationstates.net where you get to pretty much rule your own country, I think it would be neat if someone built an account based on what we put here, and see what happens to the country

Haha I used to play that! My country was very Scandinavian.