Who are they? And how did they get in touch with you or you with them?
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Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
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sea witch
- Oct 2005
- 11651
- relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
- coastal Georgia
- *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*
Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
I don't have patron deities. I don't want them. I do have deities that I work with more often or more intently, but they aren't a patron deity.
This will likely come off dismissive, flippant, and maybe even offensive, but I'm going to put it this way anyhow...IMO: Patronage is based on the idea of a tit for tat relationship--in this case, I give you worship and act as your physical hands here on Earth and you provide me with guidance and the occasional bit of blessing bribery...if not, I'll zap ya. If I had wanted that, I would have stayed a Christian. I don't want a mommy or daddy god. The views of others will vary based on their understanding and the goals of their religious experience, and even while I personally consider the experience as lousy for me, doesn't mean that its lousy for them. Many a person is helped by having a patron deity.
But for me, while I'm no recon, I just can't get into it--patronage isn't a well borne out concept in historical Paganisms; yes, the gods had their favorites and people had their favorite gods undoubtedly, but unless one was specifically a priest in a temple dedicated to a particular god, the household/family/village/tribe/etc (the exact unit depends on the culture here) was protected by not pissing off any particular god too much (and atoning the heck out of it if you did)...god monogamy (henotheism) just wasn't considered good sense. Nor does it address what I want to get out of religion. Right actions, not right belief--praxis, not doxa (because I like the LAtin).
With that being said, humanity changes, cultures evolve, religions and views about deities change. Contemporary Paganism has been incredibly influenced by the New Age movement. People want guardian angel gods, and that is what most Pagan literature (books, blogs, websites, etc) promote, and what most Pagans consider the norm, and therefore what most Pagans think they need to do (and often end up doing) to be properly Pagan. There are entire traditions (ADF Druidry, for one) that promote finding patron gods. And that is fine, if it is what you want.
If you are looking for a patron god or goddess* there are two ways that most people do it---the wait and see method, and the go and find method. For the wait and see method, you wait and see for what you feel/see/hear/dream/etc. You might have a ritual in which you say "hey, I'm looking for a patron deity..." (imo, dumb idea...its a bit like shouting "hey, I'm drunk and have $1000 cash on this street corner in the middle of the night"), or maybe you do some meditating, etc... The go and find method (IMO, the better choice) works something like this: research a bit about the mythology and find the deities that interest you, have a ritual or guided meditation dedicated to that deity and make an offering, and wait. Its sort of like a first date (offering=flowers)...see if they reciprocate interest. If so, see where it goes. If it works out, you can make it formal.
Not to long ago I wrote a blog post that goes into a bit more detail, plus you can totally google "connecting with deity" and find a number of pages of information to check out! Also, just from some of the questions, you've been asking in general, I really recommend reading To Walk A Pagan Path by Alaric Albertsson for a good overview of how to get started. If you do decide that you are interested in the Greek deities (it seemed like you were leaning that way in another thread), there are some other great resources that I can recommend too!
*Please excuse the brief rant (this isn't meant to be aimed at you, OP, its lingo that is so pervasively abused that you are not alone in being led astray!)...a matron is an older married woman, a patron is a protector/provider/advocate. Yes, they both originate from the Latin mater and pater (mother and father), but they've been a diverged concept with new definitions for almost 800 years. The correct phrasing should be patron and patroness (if one insists on making it gender specific, though "patron" is still grammatically correct for both). I get that language changes over time, I'm cool with that, but when there's already a word for it...I have an issue with making a new and incorrect one up.Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
In my understanding, the gods are usually patrons of broad concepts rather than individuals. The exception being in mysticism, where a personal relationship to and with deity is sought. Thing is, Wicca and Wiccanate pagan developed as mystery traditions; so when their ideas became 'mainstream' in broader Neopaganism, that model became seen as the norm.
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
As so often, Thalassa hits the nail on the head.
There are some Pagan traditions where you have a family God (ancient Babylonian and modern Hindu) and some where you have a personal God (Hinduism) but it's not widespread. In Classical Athens, the family worshiped Hestia, Zeus Ktesios, Zeus Herkeios, Apollo Patroos, Hermes, and Hekate in the home. My domestic altar has the more Hellenistic Hestia, Hekate, Asklepios, and Tyche. I worship other Gods at their festivals and if I need their help (like Athena Britannia for a good result in the election). I don't have a patron.
As for matrons,
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Of course Thalassa is spot on, as always.You don't "have" to have a patron god and matron goddess. I do, but that's because it's the path that I walk, and it is my own.
If you do want to have a patron god and matron goddess, I agree with the "go and find" being the better method. Dreams can often be interpreted incorrectly, and if you're desperate for a sign, you might take anything as one, or even conjure them up on your own.
Also, if you don't feel a connection the first time, don't give up if it's a god you truly want to have a relationship with. Wait, and try again. Patience is keyLove me for who I am, not for who you want me to be.
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Silver Member
- May 2013
- 2847
- Shamanic Practitioner & Green / Hedge Witch with Hellenic leanings
- West Virginia
- Can't never did nothing till it tried!
Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Being politically correct the correct usage for a woman who inspires, guides or gives support would be a patroness. I personally have patron gods and patroness goddesses not a matron goddess as no such thing truly exists as part of the usage of the word matron. To me that is more of the PC police getting something else wrong when patron is applicable to both male and female beings who inspire, guide and / or gives support to someone.
That said one doesn't specifically have to have a patron / patroness god / goddess to be pagan or have a fulfilling spiritual / religious belief and practice.I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Thal be the people whisperer,she makes sense when all sense is gone..and people just go plop...and stop speaking and do the chicken dance...
MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
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my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Originally posted by anunitu View PostThal be the people whisperer,she makes sense when all sense is gone..and people just go plop...and stop speaking and do the chicken dance...
https://youtu.be/Hb9FwlubyIQLove me for who I am, not for who you want me to be.
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
I am home,and as far as drunk..I wish I had the energy to get drunk..we old guys just remember the old days when the drunk was an epic adventure that hopefully did not end in a jail cell..MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
sigpic
my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Originally posted by Louisvillian View PostIn my understanding, the gods are usually patrons of broad concepts rather than individuals.śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
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sea witch
- Oct 2005
- 11651
- relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
- coastal Georgia
- *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*
Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Originally posted by Thorbjorn View PostThat's probably the best illustration of my understanding of patron. As for me, I used the word patron elsewhere once and got my tongue stomped on for sounding like a special snowflake with a patron. A better word and idea is fulltrui (or fulltrua for a goddess). Fulltrui/a means "completely trusted". It's a god/dess one has utmost faith in, as a friend, protector/protectress.
Either way though, patron is an apt enough meaning if you are looking at the Roman model of patronage, though another similar model (though imperfect) might be the system of fostering during the middle ages.
Roman society also involved a system of patronage. Members of the upper classes the patroni offered protection to freedmen or plebeians, who became their "cliens." Patronage might consist of money, food, or legal help. Traditionally, any freed slaves became the cliens of their former owner.
In return, patroni received respect and political favors. During the empire, cliens were required to offer daily greetings to their patroni, and the number of these greeters helped determine social status. On the frontiers of the empire, Roman generals served as patroni for the people they conquered, while Roman provinces or cities often sought out an influential senator to act as patroni and oversee their interests in Rome.
source: PBS...fostering finds its place in society as a much altered carry-over from the past. Nowadays, it arises for a negative reason: the inability of biological parents to cope, for whatever reason.
Fostering in the past was the antithesis of this. It was a form of child-rearing chosen and upheld for positive reasons, moulded by culture. Fostering was the acceptance of the responsibilities of rearing and educating a child in accordance with certain regulations. The child was indeed the focus in this process, but the realm of fostering expanded beyond that of childhood. It was a lifelong contract. Intimate bonds created through fostering carried immediate and long term consequences. Fostering helped to mould the medieval child, and its enduring character long out-lived the medieval period.
It has been suggested that fostering in Roman times was the result of a taboo which forbade the father from seeing his children until they had reached a certain age. What is known for certain is that when Ireland emerges in the historic period (fifth century), fostering is a well established tradition in society.
Source: bodice ripper author (BTW, if her books are as decently researched as her blog, I might try reading one)
...I feel a ranting blog post coming onLast edited by thalassa; 28 Jul 2015, 14:25.Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Originally posted by thalassa View PostWell that's because some people just have a stick up their arse so the person they let hold the stick can tell them what to say to feel better about themselves.
Either way though, patron is an apt enough meaning if you are looking at the Roman model of patronage, though another similar model (though imperfect) might be the system of fostering during the middle ages.śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
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Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Oh darn,gonna go find some shelter cause Thal gonna go into pontificating mode,and the truths gonna be coming hot and heavy....MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
sigpic
my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html
Comment
-
Silver Member
- May 2013
- 2847
- Shamanic Practitioner & Green / Hedge Witch with Hellenic leanings
- West Virginia
- Can't never did nothing till it tried!
Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Originally posted by thalassa View PostWell that's because some people just have a stick up their arse so the person they let hold the stick can tell them what to say to feel better about themselves.
Either way though, patron is an apt enough meaning if you are looking at the Roman model of patronage, though another similar model (though imperfect) might be the system of fostering during the middle ages.
Also, from a grammatical standpoint, its patronus (plural, patroni), patrona (plural, patronae) in the Latin, not matron...so no matter what language you look at, matron is wrong. Even the dictionary says its patroness.
...I feel a ranting blog post coming on
I used to bring up the patron / matron thing and usually had people respond with the argument of the patriarchal & matriarchal thoughts as to using Matron. Even got banned from a few sites because of it. Told truth and accuracy didn't matter as long as the person was happy about their choice. Bugs me to no end know but I usually just make a statement now and move on. Then sit back and watch the people who continue to use "Matron" to describe their relationship to a goddess.I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!
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sea witch
- Oct 2005
- 11651
- relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
- coastal Georgia
- *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*
Re: Getting in touch with your patron / matron Gods
Originally posted by anunitu View PostOh darn,gonna go find some shelter cause Thal gonna go into pontificating mode,and the truths gonna be coming hot and heavy....
How about if I start with the truth of my own hypocrisy?
Originally posted by thalassa View PostWell that's because some people just have a stick up their arse so the person they let hold the stick can tell them what to say to feel better about themselves.
Either way though, patron is an apt enough meaning if you are looking at the Roman model of patronage, though another similar model (though imperfect) might be the system of fostering during the middle ages.
(snip)
Also, from a grammatical standpoint, its patronus (plural, patroni), patrona (plural, patronae) in the Latin, not matron...so no matter what language you look at, matron is wrong. Even the dictionary says its patroness.
...I feel a ranting blog post coming onWonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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