Forgiveness

[Medusa]

Re: Forgiveness

IMHO - To forgive is vital. Without it, hate and anger build up in the individual until there is little room left for anything else.

Eh, not necessarily. There are many people I have never forgiven. But I don't hold the anger anymore. I just move them to the 'dead to me pile' and get on with things. But I know specifically they are absolutely not forgiven their trespasses against me.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Forgiveness

Eh, not necessarily. There are many people I have never forgiven. But I don't hold the anger anymore. I just move them to the 'dead to me pile' and get on with things. But I know specifically they are absolutely not forgiven their trespasses against me.

We prolly disagree on terms. To me, when anger is gone, I call it forgiven. For you, there is a different definition.

[anunitu]

Re: Forgiveness

I will tend to after a while let stuff slide,but I seldom forget and forgive..I just tend to ignore it as much as possible.

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They call me MISTER Grinch...

[Medusa]

Re: Forgiveness

We prolly disagree on terms. To me, when anger is gone, I call it forgiven. For you, there is a different definition.

Yeah, you are probably right on that. Though if I saw those people again I would run them over with my bike in the blink of an eye. Though I would do so in perfect peaceful bliss.

Something is probably wrong with me.

Then again, they did that to me. So eff em.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Forgiveness

Perfect peaceful bliss is good. Go widdit.

[thalassa]

Re: Forgiveness

I think that forgiveness means that you've moved on...It doesn't mean that you like it, that you've forgotten it, that you will ever trust that person the same, that thinking about it might not piss you off again...just that it doesn't cause the same intensity of anger, and that (if the need calls for it) you can function in whatever relationship you had/have/want to have with that person in a way that is at least well-mannered and cordial (or, in a work environment, professional).

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Forgiveness

I think people make a mistake when they put the word "forget" with the word "forgive."

Forgive and forget? No.

It's important to remember - it is a type of self-defense. Without it a person turns his/her self into a target.

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Forgiveness

It's important to remember - it is a type of self-defense. Without it a person turns his/her self into a target.

It would be a lot easier to move on from a few things if I could forget them so I have to disagree here. Regardless of whatever I forgive or not the people who wronged me, at least the damage they did cannot come back to haunt me that way.

[Cynica the Ageless]

Re: Forgiveness

I find that being able to forgive is a mark of strength, but knowing when to forgive is a mark of wisdom.

[WrachDrui]

Re: Forgiveness

Is it a weakness or a strength? Is it for you, or for them? What does it mean to you, to "forgive"? Do you think that it is absolution or acceptance (or both, or something else)? What is unforgiveable?

It took a lot of strength for me to forgive 2 people in my life who have caused me lots of pain and disappointment, but I found I felt better once I stopped letting it matter so much.
I guess that's the closest I can say I've come to forgiving them.
They were both family.
One I still see on a daily basis, so for everyones' sake, I had to put it all behind us and move on.
The other, I cut out of my life by moving 300 miles away.
I don't think about what happened, in either case, unless stuff happens to remind me.

What I couldn't forgive would be if anyone hurt my Sons.
I guess the protection instinct is still as strong with me now that they are grown men as it was when they were small boys.
The irony of that is they protect me more now as I grow older and not so strong!
But the intent is still there...!

[Gleb]

Re: Forgiveness

Guys - question. What if I have no other option but to find compassion with what a person did a long while ago. Does this count?

[Bjorn]

Re: Forgiveness

Is it a weakness or a strength? Is it for you, or for them? What does it mean to you, to "forgive"? Do you think that it is absolution or acceptance (or both, or something else)? What is unforgiveable?

Forgiveness is neither strength nor a weakness. Forgiveness is a tool, a means to an end. You can choose to forgive someone so that you can rid yourself of negativity and 'let go' of the issue that hurts you (spiritual masturbation). You can withhold forgiveness from your enemies as a means of punishing them indefinitely for their actions (selfish vengeance).

I have personally done both and find both to be immensely satisfying.

If you are the type of person who holds onto anger and will worry at it like a child with a loose tooth, then it behooves you most to try and forgive. After all, unless your grudge amuses you, delights you, or brings you any sense of morbid pleasure, then the only person ailing is you. As a Satanist, that just doesn't make sense to me. Strong emotions are like drugs, they bring about a sense of heightened physical awareness so, just as a person can be addicted to the rush of cocaine, a person can also be addicted to the thrill of righteous anger. However, unless that thrill is channeled in a useful way, the adrenaline and stress will eventually wear away at the wielder's strength. By holding onto that anger and dwelling on it, they have made the offender a god higher than themselves, and are, in fact, siphoning their own power straight into their enemies hands.

That is stupid.

However, if you are the type of person that knows how to control themselves and have deemed a subject worthy of punishment, you can let go of your anger, but not your sense of justice. 'Forgive, but not forget' is what I usually hear people saying in this kind of scenario, which is really a misnomer, since what it implies is that you're no longer angry about it, but you're going to make it right. I'll spare you the details, but someone in my past wronged me severely. I have since 'forgiven' this person. I do not think about them, I do not waste energy on them, but I have never offered forgiveness, because it is what this enemy craves from me the most. He shall not have it. He shall crawl and clutch and cloy for my softness, and he will be denied every single time. By refusing to engage in this 'forgiveness,' he experiences over a longer period of time, a modicum of the pain he inflicted upon me.

I've got a helluva long-game.

So, all that to say, is that forgiveness is entirely up to the wielder. Forgiveness is always selfish -- either you want to be rid of bad feelings, you want to mend ties, you want to move on and forget about it, etc. OR, you want to use it as a bargaining chip to keep the other person in your pocket, under your thumb, punish them, etc.

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As for what is unforgiveable, rape, molestation, willful and intentional harming of children, incest (non-consensual, not talking about Jaime and Cersei), are the only topics that, to me, come to the top of my head.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Forgiveness

Forgiveness is a conscious selfish act. I sets you free of the anger or guilt.
If you withhold forgiveness it only affects you. It certainly doesn't punish the offender.
I believe it is similar to being angry with someone. Your anger uses up your energy and it eats at you. Most often the one you are angry with is not aware of your feelings.
It is almost always better for you to forgive.

[thalassa]

Re: Forgiveness

Guys - question. What if I have no other option but to find compassion with what a person did a long while ago. Does this count?

What do you mean Gleb? Whats the background here (if you feel comfortable sharing)?

[Gleb]

Re: Forgiveness

What do you mean Gleb? Whats the background here (if you feel comfortable sharing)?

Do you mind if I send you a pm, Thal? I prefer not to talk about this in public.

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Since it will lead to another argument I sincerely DON'T want to have.