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Thread: Pop Culture Paganism

  1. #11
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I don't recall calling anyone an idiot. I thought this was a general discussion, not that someone was actually worshiping a pop culture character (as the link said). We were asked what we thought. It's my opinion. I can word it less meany if needed. Whatever floats your pizza boat.
    You promised an action. I want you to be firmly aware that if you carry out that action in a manner that violates forum rules then I will hold you to account for that action. Should you choose to call people outside this forum idiots for their beliefs then that is on you. Should you choose to act on your first statement in this thread in a manner that violates forum rules toward say the two resident followers of the God Emperor of Man, toward V when she is particularly emulating a fictional pantheon, toward Thal if she decides to interface with Deity through a character from modern fiction as well as various Titans or toward any number of potential future members who may build their beliefs around fiction then you and I are going to have words and then I'm going to Ban you. If you don't intend to follow through on your promise to call people out for their choices on who to worship on PF then we won't have a problem related to this issue.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

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    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  2. #12
    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    Well since you brought this up. Look, I'm not trying to go to war over something that is a sentence. I don't like long wordy stuff. So I'll just ask as to be very clear.

    1. Are you asking me to change my opinion on this subject? Because that will never happen. And I have a feeling that's not what you are saying at all.

    2. Are you asking me to change the way I word my opinion as to not be insulting to the 'outside' world. I have no idea who that is. Because f the outside world. For That dude who believes in the video game and to V, I do apologize. So if you want me to change my wording to be more sensitive to those, that can definitely happen.

    3. I don't call out anyone until they ask the forum for their opinion. And I feel I'm part of this forum, even when I have the dissenting opinion. I try to not post in all those other threads out of respect, because I know the rules and where I actually am (a Pagan forum). But when asked 'hey, what do you think', well..I do think. Though like I said, I can post that opinion in a more sensitive way if needed.

    So number 2?
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  3. #13
    Bronze Member Munin-Hugin's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    I feel that creating a new and special snowflake title of "Pop Culture Paganism" is really sort of silly, when you come to think about it. In ancient Greece, it was "pop culture" to believe in and to worship Zeus and Apollo and the like, it was "pop culture" for the Norse to pray to Thor and Odin. You have to remember that back then, the myths, stories, legends, artwork, cave drawings, etc were their form on entertainment. Instead of turning on the TV and watching a show, they'd gather around and tell stories.

    As much as at times I find myself thinking someone who says that they call upon My Little Ponies for help and guidance, you've got to wonder. For all we know, some Greek kids might have been playing by the water and decided to make up a game where the boy pretended to be a sea monster and tried to drag the girl into the water. Next thing you know, we've got Poseidon wanting virgin sacrifices to the Kraken.

    I've always held the thought that gods, monsters, fairies, and all other sorts of beings are created and die every day. If you believe in something strongly enough, it becomes the truth, if only to you. That faith has power, and through it beings of thought and form are created. Once that belief fades away, so do those beings.

  4. #14
    bibliophibian volcaniclastic's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    I appreciate being defended, and I appreciate the apology, but it is unnecessary. At the core of my belief, I believe in an ideal, and I have found that ideal to be emulated within a fictional character. I don't believe said fictional character is actually tangible and real, but that doesn't stop me from worshipping the idea.

    To each their own. We find the divine in a thousand ways. Some would argue that holy texts are also fiction, and that God is a fictional character. Just from a much older novel...yet millions, if not billions of people worship him. And they're not idiots. I mean, I'm sure some of them are, but not for their belief.

    And I know of a particular member who practically worships an X-Men character, so...what's that say about her?
    “The world is big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.” – John Muir

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  5. #15
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post

    So number 2?
    2 is close enough. I don't mind if you disagree with Pop Culture Paganism. You disagree with standard theism, why would I expect you to agree with pop culture paganism? My concern is that we have and will have members in the future who hold beliefs that you think are silly. We have a number of people I disagree with. You want to say you disagree? Cool. Just understand that there is, "I disagree" or "Yeah, I'm not a fan," (both of those are referencing ideas) and there's "Anyone who believes X is an idiot and I'll call them one". "Anyone who believes X is an idiot" is an attack on any number of members whose beliefs you aren't aware of and "I'll call them one" is a statement that you have no problem starting a flame war in a forum that expressly forbids such. I'll accept, "Pop Culture Paganism is silly" unless you push the point so aggressively that it can't be anything other than a provocation. I won't tolerate "You've based your religion on Superman. You're a f-ing moron"

    See the distinction?
    Last edited by MaskedOne; 11 Aug 2015 at 21:36.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  6. #16
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    A common type of Buddhism practiced in western countries is called "Shambala Buddhism." It gets similar criticism from practitioners of Asian forms of Buddhism - that it is "pop Buddhism" because it is specifically adjusted to fit in with western culture allowing the practitioner to both be Buddhists and continue living a western style life, but with Buddhist principles.

    The criticism is foolish. Every place Buddhism went after leaving India (and even as it moved about in India) it changed to adjust to local culture - this is why Zen Buddhism in Japan is different from Mahayana Buddhism in Mongolia.

    All belief systems change and are altered by local needs, conditions, customs, cultures, and subcultures. The idea of "purity," for any religion, is (to be polite) goofy. The same is true for pagan beliefs. Not everybody has to be a museum recon, or wants to be.

    If a person feels compelled to judge the religion of another, I suggest sincerity of belief and effectiveness in producing promised results as more meaningful.

    I suggest respect as even better.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  7. #17
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    Quote Originally Posted by habbalah View Post
    Pop Culture Paganism is a relatively new "brand" of paganism, for lack of a better word. For those of you who don't know what it is, here is a rundown. A very basic explanation is using pop culture to shape your ideas and worship, but please read the link, as that leaves a lot out.

    What do you think about this? How does the idea of pop culture paganism strike you?


    This is not new. This has been going on forever. Think about it this way--we have myths from ancient cultures. Those myths came from somewhere. We don't actually know that they weren't stories about old grea-great-great-great-great grea-great-great-great-great-grea-great-great-great-great-grea-great-great-great-great-Grannie Athena, founder of Athens back in her arse kicking days before the generational game of telephone got started and people started thinking she was really something *else* and forgetting that she was actually a person. Look at the Iliad and Odessey by Homer...until about 1870 years ago, Troy was just a myth. Who is to say that myths didn't come first? That campfire on the savannah needs some entertainment now and again. And even if they didn't, myths are not authentic stories about gods--whether that god is YHWH or Ariadne; myths are metaphors. Pagans have been worshipping since well before this little Superman dust up over the past year, and even before the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Chocolate Rabbit of my early Wiccan years. Appeal to antiquity is a logical fallacy, I see no reason why religion makes it otherwise.

    Real is irrelevent. Humans have been worshipping imaginary friends for pretty much their entire modern history. It doesn’t matter if they are “real” or not, it matters that we find meaning in our interactions with them. It matters that those interactions better ourselves and our world. Evidence of religious practices and concepts date back to the Paleolithic, long before the cultures that created the mythology and the gods that Pagans worship. There is something about us that craves an interaction with agency where agency doesn't objectively and concretely exist. There is some serious scientific speculation that this
    regarding religion as a type of group selection (I recommend the book Supernatural Selction) for more info on this. Religion is about relationship. It doesn't matter whether or not the object of that relationship is something that actually exists or not, or whether that existence (metaphorical or otherwise) is modern or not.

    The honest truth about religion--the ONLY honest truth about religion that I've ever been able to establish--is that the only thing that determines “right” is belief (including everything before this that I said). It goes without saying that I believe I’m right (or at least more right than the next guy), or else I’d have different beliefs. It also goes without saying that people with diametrically different and even opposed beliefs believe that they are right as well. So, we can’t all be right (unless there are multiple dimensions of reality or some other wacky string theory idea); nor can we independently and objectively verify who might possibly be right (there’s no way to dip out the measuring spoon for god). Religions don’t need their stories to be literally true, it is people that need to believe their mythology as literal truth. Perhaps because we have been programmed to think that we have to be “right”, and if we are “right”, then everyone else must be “wrong”. Or maybe its because we have been conditioned to think that only the literal truth matters. But a story doesn’t need to be literally true to be important and it doesn’t need need historical accuracy for it to have meaning. I don’t need my religious beliefs to be “right” to be true, and I don’t need them to be literally true to be right for me. Nor do I need to formally reject the ideas that I think are wrong for me…its enough for me that I just don’t believe in them or follow them. The mythology of the Bible and the Abrahamic faiths is just as legitimate (and no more) as the mythology of the Celts, the Greeks, the Norse, the Egyptians, etc. They are all just as legitimate, and still, just a myth. (quoting myself from my blog)



    Look, I worship beings whose literal existence I know cannot be established, and one or two that I absolutely know are totally made up. My reverence, my experience is still real.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

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    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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  8. #18
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    The pop culture term is most likely not a real good term to use. That term tends to trivialize because it tends to bring up the idea of short term fads. I am not sure what term would be better suited in this discussion. Perhaps the term"Modern myths and beliefs" would better form more of a solid reason for how people interact in this way.
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  9. #19
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    Let me present an interesting example of a religion intentionally incorporating a character they know to fictional, and then forgetting they have done so.

    LeVeyan (atheistic) Satanists.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

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  10. #20
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    Quote Originally Posted by habbalah View Post
    Pop Culture Paganism is a relatively new "brand" of paganism, for lack of a better word. For those of you who don't know what it is, here is a rundown. A very basic explanation is using pop culture to shape your ideas and worship, but please read the link, as that leaves a lot out.

    What do you think about this? How does the idea of pop culture paganism strike you?
    I have no issue with Pop Culture Paganism, and I think that it can quite easily fit into several different forms of belief in 'entities'. Pop culture icons provide quite good foci for the worship or reverence of a conceptual figure, particularly if it's one that you are very familiar with. Pop culture icons often fit easily into typical Archetypal characters, and therefore can be used to embody any of those Archetypes just as effectively as any other entity. And if we choose to be literal, I absolutely do believe that there are a number of pop culture icons who have enough backing behind them to have become a sort of group egregore and therefore can be considered to be an actual entity.

    It's easy to have a knee jerk reaction against Pop Culture Paganism, but most of the pagans I know who work with pop culture icons don't literally worship the icon as their actual hard polytheistic style god... they work with the energy and focus of the conceptual figure or Archetype behind the icon. It's not quite the same, and while the former could easily be considered 'silly', the latter is no more silly than any other form of deity (or character) reverence.

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