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    #31
    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

    I think the idea is a little silly, for many reasons. I don't doubt that some people have the will and psychology to make it work, but it's like fetching a toothpick to peel a banana. Unless the image of whatever pop culture item is so ingrained into your brain that nothing else would make sense for what you're trying to accomplish in your path, you're just making your own life harder. Your path should make it easier to live life, not to make a fantasy route to escape from it. IMO

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      #32
      Re: Pop Culture Paganism

      Originally posted by Azimuth View Post
      I think the idea is a little silly, for many reasons. I don't doubt that some people have the will and psychology to make it work, but it's like fetching a toothpick to peel a banana. Unless the image of whatever pop culture item is so ingrained into your brain that nothing else would make sense for what you're trying to accomplish in your path, you're just making your own life harder. Your path should make it easier to live life, not to make a fantasy route to escape from it. IMO
      This depends largely on how you worship, though. If you're a hard polytheist who believes that deities are literal entities who are actually interacting with you on a level that is external to yourself, I agree that Pop Culture paganism could make your practice harder.

      BUT... if you were a soft polytheist who believes that deities are manifestations of some overruling Divine Force, and that said Divine Force manifests in all things... well then working with someone like Nocturnal from the Elder Scrolls mythos could potentially be just as 'easy' and effective as working with Nyx of Roman mythos. If you're a chaote, then Pop Culture icons are completely legitimate identities to work with, and in many cases are preferred over existing deities specifically because they are more flexible and tractable than existing deities. There is also the fact that many people don't just work with the Pop Culture icons, but actually resonate with the surrounding religious ideas behind them.

      There are a lot of Pop Culture icons which have very complex and detailed lore, mythology and religion. I'll come back to Elder Scrolls, because that's what I'm most familiar with... but there are not only a number of deities in the Elder Scrolls lore, but they each have relationships to each other; the different races have different names for the same deities, which can be explored through books you pick up in your travels; the Daedric Princes have realms within Oblivion (the Otherworlds) which can be visited; you interact with many of the deities and Daedric Princes through the games; you are submersed in the culture and beliefs of the races who's lands you are in; and if you care to read all the lore you can construct a workable religious or spiritual path with relative ease. As someone who spends a lot of my spare time in the Elder Scrolls universe, I can absolutely see how it would seem an attractive thing to do to construct my spiritual and religious practices around some of the deities... and if you weren't a hard polytheist, it would be just as easy (if not easier!) to do that then it would be to read a bunch of authors and academic texts about any existing Thisworld mythology or path.

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        #33
        Re: Pop Culture Paganism

        I remember when Star Wars was the pop culture paganism that was running wild for a bit. The phrase "May the force be with you" was nearly the same as any Christian blessing you might likely hear on the street.

        I think the thing with pop culture paganism is that culture seem's to change nearly every generation so to then does the idea of pop culture paganism. One might compare it to the 70's when you had the save the earth culture with all the Native American symbolism that filled the airwaves. The feminist roots of modern paganism could be said and effectively argued that the modern pagan face owes much of its structure to that era of the 70's and early 80's pop culture issues. The Satanic scare of the 80's and early 90's changed a lot of the face of paganism and created a notion of pop culture paganism, especially with it's Christian dogma clinging on. I truly expect to see more and more of the Middle Earth pop culture paganism picking up with the success of the LOTR and Hobbit movies. Well correctly say resurgence as the middle earth pop culture pagan influence has been there for many years already.

        I think where it gets ugly is when say the Middle Earth pop culture movement says that the Twilight pop culture movement is fake and has no foundation as one is based upon teen literature vice more valid mythological based literature. While the game group says both the literature based groups are hokey and the game world is the more realistic structured universe. Wonder how many remember when the Gor novels were the big thing and people were pushing that as a basis for some pagan practices? That would have been late 70's and into the 80's near as I recall now. Tied nicely to the role Princes Leia had as Jabba the Hutts slave and the Star Wars fringe groups.
        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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          #34
          Re: Pop Culture Paganism

          POP ROCKS is the only true sacrament,You all know this to be true...runs off tossing pop rocks to the throng of fans chasing me for my autograph...
          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




          sigpic

          my new page here,let me know what you think.


          nothing but the shadow of what was

          witchvox
          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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            #35
            Re: Pop Culture Paganism

            Originally posted by anunitu View Post
            POP ROCKS is the only true sacrament,You all know this to be true...runs off tossing pop rocks to the throng of fans chasing me for my autograph...
            The stories I've heard about pop rocks and how they were used. Snap, crackle and pop when just a little moisture was added to them. The erotic aspect unreal from some supposed first hand accounts we spoke about on those long mid watches with nothing else to do.

            Pop culture though i'd have to add in clackers and the almost ritualistic usage everyone seemed to have with them. Those glass and later sort of a hard plastic balls that you banged together. Gained famed with one song near as I recall....Had two balls and a string told me it was my ding a ling a ling....
            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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              #36
              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




              sigpic

              my new page here,let me know what you think.


              nothing but the shadow of what was

              witchvox
              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                Yep but thing is I never knew anyone that had one actually shatter on them. Heck we took hammers to some of ours trying to get them to shatter and fly apart. The worse we ever got was some surface abrasions and chips from using them. Many times with the hammer the most we ever got was the ball splitting in half. Funny looking back on it though. I got in more trouble with them when we tried to use them as bolo's, yet you can still buy bolo type toys.
                I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                  I have to ask. And this time I'm going to do so without judgement because I honestly canot form an opinion on this.

                  Do people actually believe believe this? Like they are going to base not only this life but their very real afterlife on this?

                  Or is this more of a coping mechanism to get along in the world. A sort of I'm going to put on these Disney Mickey ears for the next few hours while at Disneyland and drink the koolaid. Because that I can actually understand. I know exactly how that feels and that's an actual experience for me when I go to Disneyland.

                  I mean if it's like 'this is real reality' then I feel like that might constitute a hard case of mental illness. I see mental illness. I've lived with it. Believing in things that are not real and not knowing the difference seriously makes you crazy in the literal medical sense. But believing in it but knowing waaay down under, it's not, it's just a nicer view of the world, then ok.

                  I get that. Some people need this to get through the world. Some people just need Wolverine.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #39
                    Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                    Some things are written so as to inspire deeper thought, like Star Trek, Star Wars, Narnia, etc., and people may view the creators of such as visionaries, and perhaps base a bit of their beliefs on the ideas presented in their writings. Kinda like the Bible, only with talking animals or Klingons. I guess it's all faith that there could or should be something else going on besides our mundane existences. How cool would it be to open a wardrobe and enter into another land? And who's to say it's not there, but we, none of us, can see it?
                    sigpic
                    Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                      #40
                      Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                      Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
                      Some things are written so as to inspire deeper thought, like Star Trek, Star Wars, Narnia, etc., and people may view the creators of such as visionaries, and perhaps base a bit of their beliefs on the ideas presented in their writings. Kinda like the Bible, only with talking animals or Klingons. I guess it's all faith that there could or should be something else going on besides our mundane existences. How cool would it be to open a wardrobe and enter into another land? And who's to say it's not there, but we, none of us, can see it?
                      Sure. That sounds romantic. And sweet. I've dealt with a mentally ill mother who talked to things that were not there. Like the time she was in the kitchen with a kitchen knife in the dark twirling like a ballerina. Or the time she heard someone tell her to save the children outside. So she attacked a crossing gaurd.

                      Real people who believe things that are not really there are not romantic nor or they cute or sweet or whimsical. Most people aren't seeing fairies and Picard. Most are seeing demons and running around with butcher knives.

                      That's the real 'I believe in unreal things' reality.
                      Satan is my spirit animal

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                        #41
                        Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                        Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                        I mean if it's like 'this is real reality' then I feel like that might constitute a hard case of mental illness. I see mental illness. I've lived with it. Believing in things that are not real and not knowing the difference seriously makes you crazy in the literal medical sense.
                        Put in those terms, that means that having a religion (thus believing in something that you personally see but no one else does, things you've experienced that no one else has, and following the writings from various books, stories told by various people) means that you suffer from mental illness.

                        I know that it looks pretty crazy and maybe a little obsessive to some to put up little shrines to each of the Care Bears, and then to light candles and pray to them. But break it down into what it is. Each of those cartoon characters were designed to represent different emotional states and feelings of humans. So praying to Luck Bear in hopes to get get something you desire, or lighting a candle to Cheer Bear to help a friend get out of his depression is no different than doing the same to Ganesha or Bishamon respectively.

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                          #42
                          Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                          You also have the tales of Moses seeing a burning bush, and of Mary's visions of an angel telling her she was going to have the child of God, etc., which all seem to be no problem for lots of people to take seriously, because "It Is Written".
                          sigpic
                          Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                            #43
                            Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                            I have to ask. And this time I'm going to do so without judgement because I honestly canot form an opinion on this.

                            Do people actually believe believe this? Like they are going to base not only this life but their very real afterlife on this?

                            Or is this more of a coping mechanism to get along in the world. A sort of I'm going to put on these Disney Mickey ears for the next few hours while at Disneyland and drink the koolaid. Because that I can actually understand. I know exactly how that feels and that's an actual experience for me when I go to Disneyland.

                            I mean if it's like 'this is real reality' then I feel like that might constitute a hard case of mental illness. I see mental illness. I've lived with it. Believing in things that are not real and not knowing the difference seriously makes you crazy in the literal medical sense. But believing in it but knowing waaay down under, it's not, it's just a nicer view of the world, then ok.

                            I get that. Some people need this to get through the world. Some people just need Wolverine.
                            Do people believe that there are literally other planets out there with Jedi warriors and Death Stars and that we just haven't discovered them yet? I'm sure that some do, but from what I've seen, in general, no. That's not what Pop Culture paganism is about. It's not usually literal belief in the actual existence of those worlds and icons.

                            Usually, it's people using the imagery and created mythos to push their religious buttons. It's people using the familiar images as symbols to represent ideas and concepts. It's people who don't buy into extant or ancient existing religions, using a relatively modernly created one that resonates with their worldview better. It's people gaining more insight and enriching their lives more with the lessons of modern storytelling than with ancient storytelling.

                            To me, the only time this does not make any sense whatsoever is if you are a hard polytheist who doesn't accept that there is some level of pantheistic or panentheistic Divine Force. If you're a soft polytheist then all deities are manifestations of the Divine created by human culture, so what difference does a few thousand years of them being around make? If you work with Archetypes then any known image can represent that Archetype, regardless of how popular it is, because what matters is YOUR associations of it. If you're an atheist, there is no difference whatsoever between people believing in Roman gods and people believing in Pokemon... you believe they're all fake anyway so what difference does a few thousand years make?

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                              #44
                              Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                              Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                              If you're an atheist, there is no difference whatsoever between people believing in Roman gods and people believing in Pokemon... you believe they're all fake anyway so what difference does a few thousand years make?
                              You are right. It's all the same to me.

                              I was just curious by those who do this, if it's known to be fake but useful or real. I assumed most were using it as an archetype (the way Satanists use Satan) So I get that. I just don't want to pretend to understand and accept mentally ill people who do think Jedis are real and on other planets etc. Because it's one step to cutting off my head if they trip wrong!
                              Satan is my spirit animal

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                                #45
                                Re: Pop Culture Paganism

                                Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                                I just don't want to pretend to understand and accept mentally ill people who do think Jedis are real and on other planets etc. Because it's one step to cutting off my head if they trip wrong!
                                I really should make up a cosmology that allows me to push the literal existence of Jedi somewhere just to see how many people will think I'm sincere...
                                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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