Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Okay, wherever the governments money comes from I hope they have better things to spend it on than housing cats.

Here is an interesting twist: If the government provided housing for cats - and I am not saying it should, as I prefer my comprehensive method - it could issue currency to pay for those jobs which could also be used to reduce unemployment both directly (created jobs payed for by the government) and indirectly (money entering the economy this way ends up in the private sector as those employ use it). So really, what better way to spend money on than to reduce unemployment?

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Or my idea, which is profit producing, we sell cat stew for profit and reinvest the funds into infrastructure!

(If were going off the rails here we'll take it all the way)

[Gleb]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Right, so lemme ask you all something. If you're against funding shelters for cats, why do it for homeless people? HUMANS ARE NO BETTER THAN CATS. They're sometimes much, much much much worse.
Both are mammals, both are living beings, both want to survive. Both can and want to love and be loved. Before you answer - remember that your answer defines what kind of human you are.

[anunitu]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Not human Gleb,government.....single people do not make policy,government does.....

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

The value and amount of currency must be based on assets. If a government just cranks money out of a printing press, you end up with devalued money and runaway inflation such as occurred in Germany after WWI, and in Russia immediately after the communist revolution.

You misunderstand what caused the inflation. Germany after WWI used most of that currency to trade it for foreign credit while at the same time enganging in austerity. The private sector was attacked from two fronts: No new money was entering the economy and it was being drained of it by a government that used it for practically nothing.

Furthermore, the "Gold Standard" was a myth. The majority of money on the market is always credit.

Wouldn't that be nice though, if the gooberment could just print a million bucks (in large bills) for every citizen so we all instantly become a millionaire?

No one is saying "let us go communism, yay!". I am saying - as many economists do - that money could be used to create a national employment program. If anyone is unemployed and cannot find a job - there is absolutely no excuse for the government not to say: "Well, you can work for us. We will help you and you will not be in the street".

Or maybe would you want them to starve? Or even get money for free?

That would solve so very many problems...

It is not a panacea. However, it is a proven fact that the governments sets the currency used and creates it. Even gold and silver must be recognized by a government - if you back to times before it's use as currency gold and silver were worth nothing as people used seashells.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

My answer on an internet thread about cats doesn't define anything about me. This isn't a life altering philosophical discussion this is a thread about whether we should euthanize, nueter, house, or now eat cats.

I would give a shit about a homeless man a lot sooner than In would about a feral cat who generally do quite well in their environment.

[Gleb]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Not human Gleb,government.....single people do not make policy,government does.....

Right, sorry.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Right, so lemme ask you all something. If you're against funding shelters for cats, why do it for homeless people? HUMANS ARE NO BETTER THAN CATS. They're sometimes much, much much much worse.
Both are mammals, both are living beings, both want to survive. Both can and want to love and be loved. Before you answer - remember that your answer defines what kind of human you are.

Better and worse are value judgement, and therefore relative, Gleb. It may be that you value the lives of carts higher than that of humans, but most humans put a higher value on their own species.

And, yeah, I'm THAT kind of person. A suffering animal makes me very sad. A suffering human makes me cry.

[anunitu]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

There are animal rights groups that do fund no kill shelter,but because of the expense their are not all that many. You might think about starting a group to shelter cats Gleb,but you are going to need a lot of people to donate for it.

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Also if we are going to veer into economic policy,perhaps a split to another thread is in order.

[Gleb]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Better and worse are value judgement, and therefore relative, Gleb. It may be that you value the lives of carts higher than that of humans, but most humans put a higher value on their own species.

And, yeah, I'm THAT kind of person. A suffering animal makes me very sad. A suffering human makes me cry.

I knew this answer would come. And I understand completely.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

You misunderstand what caused the inflation. Germany after WWI used most of that currency to trade it for foreign credit while at the same time enganging in austerity. The private sector was attacked from two fronts: No new money was entering the economy and it was being drained of it by a government that used it for practically nothing.

Now tell me about Russia, and Lenin's big plan to end a cash economy by crashing the economy by unending printing of cash, and the subsequent starvation that ensued...

[Gleb]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

I value human and cat lives equally. I favor cats more, because they never betray you.

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They can poop on your clothes, bring mice to your pillows, bite, scratch and do many other nasty things but never betray.

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Also if we are going to veer into economic policy,perhaps a split to another thread is in order.

I apologize. It just that as someone who studied economics I cannot let incorrect claims go unchallenged.

If anyone wishes to discuss this further (I can provide better examples and evidence) feel free to direct me to that other thread.

[anunitu]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Ask for Thal...She could open a new thread...

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Also,about homeless people,mainly they have shelters because it is cheaper than collecting bodies off the street. Also do not fool yourself,there are people who would handle the homeless problem by catching and killing,yes in some countries that has been done. Think I made that up?,think again. here

[thalassa]

Re: Feral cats. Neuter or kill?

Agreed. Lemme shake your hand, anu. -shakes anu's hand-
I don't like putting animals down, cats or not. But still.... Anu has a point.

No one is saying we should kill them just for the sake of killing them. And no one is saying that the best method to any pest management situation isn't prevention--prevention of dumping, getting people to fix their animals, etc. What we are saying is that the magnitude of the problem is not something that TNR/TNVR can address alone in either a timely enough manner to negate the damage to wildlife nor a cost effective enough manner as to be economically plausible (and the stuff about printing whatever you money need is how you devalue a currency and crash an economy, so raising government money in a functional manner is mostly and most wisely restricted to tax revenue). And I'm specifically saying that TNR programs have been demonstrated to not work when it comes to controlling feral cat colony populations.

In some places where wildcats have a native range--Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, particularly in mainland ecosystems, this probably isn't as big of a deal...since the domestic cat is (recently) related to the wildcat, I'd guess that there is a less pronounced impact on wildlife because species has evolved along with the wildcat. But in the Americas, Australia, the islands of SE Asia, there are different species of native (wild) cats...heck, Australia doesn't have any, and the US's closest wild cat (in terms of behavior and size and prey) is the bobcat (which is a predation threat to the whooping crane popluation), but bobcat have a much larger range, are solitary (female ranges almost never overlap), and breed less.