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    #61
    Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

    Religion - at least, the ramming of it down other people's throats - seems to be a worldwide proble. Hence that silly woman who wouldn't marry gay couples... and there are examples everywhere.
    Remember though, that we always need the big baddo to fear. Fifty odd years ago it was reds under the beds, and McCarthy and all that rubbish, remember?
    Now it's Islam.

    Do you know that Lebanon, a tiny country with about 3million population has taken over ONE MILLION refugees?

    Now tell me there isn't room in the UK/US, you name it, for some more. Because there is. There was after WW2 and there is now.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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      #62
      Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

      Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
      In terms of trackability. And we have our own terrorism and religion problems.
      For the low, low price of living in a war zone surrounded by highly corrupt, generally inept states with a band of rampaging sociopaths who go out of their way to come up with newer, crueler ways to torture, kill and enslave everyone who doesn't join them slowly spreading toward them....

      Yes they are harder for the US and its allies to track then most US or European citizens. Whether you want to call that freedom is up to you.
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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        #63
        Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
        highly corrupt, generally inept states with a band of rampaging sociopaths who go out of their way to come up with newer, crueler ways to torture, kill and enslave everyone who doesn't join them slowly spreading toward them....
        This reminded me of my past dating life. LOL

        There are entire debates based on freedom vs. security - I'm not prone to getting too involved in those. It's all subjective, I guess!
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        Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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          #64
          Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

          Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post

          Also, I see the rise of far-right groups as a far bigger threat to Europe than terrorism. Those people are REALLY here, and they're really being jerks at the moment. They scare me. Some vague threat of terrorism does not.

          This.



          Lets look at our immigration history, here in the US:


          We can start with the Know Nothing Party:


          Or the anti-Irish sentiment of the Nativists...





          Or how about this quote:

          ....by Ben Franklin, about German immigrants (sauce...and there are some other good quotes in the)



          ZOMG! Terrorists! is no different than the ZOMG! Bolsheviks! 100 years ago...
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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            #65
            Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

            Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
            This reminded me of my past dating life. LOL
            I can relate.

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              #66
              Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
              ZOMG! Terrorists! is no different than the ZOMG! Bolsheviks! 100 years ago...
              Those Bolsheviks went on to kill millions of people and the Islamic extremists would do as much if given the chance. Having missed being on the train that was blown up in London by 15 minutes, I take this seriously. I suspect they take such things more seriously in New York than Virginia, too.

              The point to note is that most of the Islamic extremists in Europe are second generation: born here, educated here. Their parents came here from Africa or Asia, because they wanted prosperity and security rather than poverty and violence. But they did not want our culture, and some of their children have decided that their religion is more important than peace. Can you guarantee that the current immigrants would not have offspring who would become radicalised? Of course not.

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                #67
                Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post
                Those Bolsheviks went on to kill millions of people....
                Many Americans (I don't know where you are from, David) don't take the Red Scare seriously because the McCarthy response was so over-the-top that attention is focused on that instead of the Communist export of "revolution."

                But if people know history, they know why the AK-47 is the most common rifle (and it's an automatic at that, selling for less than $500 dollars in most places where it can be owned legally) on planet earth.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #68
                  Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                  Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post

                  The point to note is that most of the Islamic extremists in Europe are second generation: born here, educated here. Their parents came here from Africa or Asia, because they wanted prosperity and security rather than poverty and violence. But they did not want our culture, and some of their children have decided that their religion is more important than peace. Can you guarantee that the current immigrants would not have offspring who would become radicalised? Of course not.
                  Perhaps another point we should be making is that the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. And Saudi Arabia is still an ally of the US and UK.

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  Many Americans (I don't know where you are from, David) don't take the Red Scare seriously because the McCarthy response was so over-the-top that attention is focused on that instead of the Communist export of "revolution."
                  The funny thing about the Communist export of 'revolution' is that when I was a girl, we thought there was such a thing as The American Revolution. Took the UK a long time to get used to calling it the War of Independence you see
                  www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                  Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                    #69
                    Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                    The problem is that communism in itself doesn't promote or spread violence. The issue was that most countries that adopted communism also adopted dictatorship leadership structures. And honestly, studying history, I'm not sure they would have gotten that far without the cold war. Working together could have brought democracy to communist countries (and therefore more of a social democrat government structure) a lot sooner than shunning and blocking out communism did.

                    Fearing and marginalizing immigrants from different cultures is no different. European policy on immigration and integration has been totally terrible up until now (and it's still terrible in a lot of countries). Like, coming from Canada, I was actually shocked at how blatantly stupid German integration policy was. Germany has more or less changed its tune, and I think the country will be the better for it. The rest of Europe could do with more inclusive policies.

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                      #70
                      Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                      Many Americans (I don't know where you are from, David) don't take the Red Scare seriously because the McCarthy response was so over-the-top that attention is focused on that instead of the Communist export of "revolution."
                      Because it really is nothing to take seriously. Specially after Stalin, the that took place focused on a reduction of nuclear armaments* and avoiding nuclear war.

                      The U.S.A. was never in danger of becoming a communist dictatorship, much less face a revolution, specially after the Great Depression. There was never support, there was never a large-scale organized movement, and if FDR was not ousted then no-one else would be ousted later when conditions became better. The closest thing you can get to an organized revoltionary movement is the Black Panther Party which quickly lost support once social reforms began to take place and racial integration became a reality.

                      Also, here is another fact: The "global revolution" the Bolshevisks spoke of was to be made of local movements. Barring aside how effective the U.S.A. was at suppressing these movements (let us not forget all those propped-up dictatorships), Khrushchev's line was meant to imply that the U.S.A.'s own working class would rebel as Marx had predicted. Again, if this did not happen back in the U.S.A.'s weakest moment, then it would not happen later.
                      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                      But if people know history, they know why the AK-47 is the most common rifle (and it's an automatic at that, selling for less than $500 dollars in most places where it can be owned legally) on planet earth.
                      And? On the grand scheme of things that is largely irrelevant as not every country has Vietnam's weather conditions. In fact, the U.S.A. used that against the Soviets themselves in Afghanistan (what kind of weapons do you think were provided to the Mujahideen?).

                      It does not matters how many weapons you have if you have to fight a modern, organized state military. This is why the Libertarians are foolish to think of themselves as "resistance heroes" - if the U.S.A. military were to crush a revolt (any revolt) it would so in a matter of hours-days, not even weeks. And this includes an hypothetical communist revolution, now and then. Irrational fear is irrational fear, it does not matters if it pertains to nazis, communists, or aliens.

                      *I should add, that during the Cold War the U.S.A. had better technology and a larger number of nuclear weapons, and this discrepancy only grew as time went on which would have meant the difference in military conflicts had the Cold War continued onto our present days.

                      As for the thread's topic itself, I was born and raised in a country made by immigrants. If people had not choosen to flee war, I would simply not exist. Can I blame their modern equivalents for doing the same?

                      Yes, I know that their culture is different. Yes, their religion is different. Yes, their ethics are different. But if you marginalize them that only makes them cling to their traditions even more. If you get them opportunities for integration the differences will fade over time. It is definitely true that not all traditions will be abandoned but there is a difference between a child that grows indoctrinated in a war-torn country and a child that grows in a western country with western classmates and education. He simply has a perspective the other lacks and will be much more unlikely to take up arms against his home. So to answer my own question, no, I cannot.
                      Last edited by NeoPlatonic; 18 Sep 2015, 05:04.

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                        #71
                        Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                        Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                        Many Americans (I don't know where you are from, David) don't take the Red Scare seriously because the McCarthy response was so over-the-top that attention is focused on that instead of the Communist export of "revolution."

                        But if people know history, they know why the AK-47 is the most common rifle (and it's an automatic at that, selling for less than $500 dollars in most places where it can be owned legally) on planet earth.
                        The problem with McCarthyism is that McCarthy was only a blip on the radar but the whole time frame, basically 1930 - abt 1957 (McCarthy was roughly 1950-56). Yet he was so anti-communist and created some really bogus claims that the whole period gets named for him generally. Even then the Red Scare continued well into the Vietnam Era if not later though never reaching the heights it did in the 50's.

                        So the aspect that was McCarthyism is though to be knee jerk and over blow yet the totality of the Red Scare still holds a lot of sway upon things even today. With the conditions developing in both Russia and China and projection of power many are thinking were seeing the second Cold War already starting.
                        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                          #72
                          Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                          Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                          The problem with McCarthyism is that McCarthy was only a blip on the radar but the whole time frame, basically 1930 - abt 1957 (McCarthy was roughly 1950-56). Yet he was so anti-communist and created some really bogus claims that the whole period gets named for him generally. Even then the Red Scare continued well into the Vietnam Era if not later though never reaching the heights it did in the 50's.

                          So the aspect that was McCarthyism is though to be knee jerk and over blow yet the totality of the Red Scare still holds a lot of sway upon things even today. With the conditions developing in both Russia and China and projection of power many are thinking were seeing the second Cold War already starting.
                          Yeah, it started way before McCarthy though. Churchill had a big hand in building distrust of the USSR and communism, for example.

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                            #73
                            Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                            Remember,one creates power by making boogymen to be afraid of,and you become the boogyman killer,so POWER
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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                              #74
                              Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                              Remember,one creates power by making boogymen to be afraid of,and you become the boogyman killer,so POWER
                              Well said, anunitu. Well said.

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                                #75
                                Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

                                It was my opinion that it took such a long time to get bin Laden because with no boggyman,you cannot push for more war and more money and also the patriot act needed something to allow it to go through..

                                - - - Updated - - -

                                It had been hinted that they(gov) had him in their sites and did not take the shot.
                                MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                                all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                                NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                                don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                                sigpic

                                my new page here,let me know what you think.


                                nothing but the shadow of what was

                                witchvox
                                http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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