Nature of Souls

[anunitu]

Re: Nature of Souls

Really,but Vodka is kinda spicy,right?

[Gleb]

Re: Nature of Souls

Well vodka is a drink.

[Munin-Hugin]

Re: Nature of Souls

It's funny that the day this thread was posted, it was "National Tell A Story Day", and so I told my wife a little tale. I'm not sure of it's origin, but since it relates to the topic, I'll tell it here.

Back when the world was young, and the Gods had just finished creating the physical world that we now call Earth, they took a moment and looked out over all they had made and decided that, despite it being a thing of beauty, it felt empty. So, they all came together to meet once again to discuss how to rectify the situation. Their decision was to create life, to be able to enjoy and experience the lands that they had made. Each god took a tiny portion of their own divine force, and combined it together to form beings of pure, divine light and energy, and set them loose into the world.

For a time, as was well and good. The Gods took pleasure in their creations, and the beings of divine light and energy were truly happy in their new home. But that happiness was short-lived. You see, the Gods had taken from themselves fragments of their best traits, their love, their joy, their, pleasure, and their hope, and so these beings existed without any worries, fears, or negative emotions of any kind. Because of this, the Gods grew jealous of their own creations, as they felt that it was wrong that what they had made should be so free, while they themselves could still suffer. In their anger, they collectively struck out at the beings of divine light and energy, tearing them asunder and scattering the pieces to far corners of the planet.

To add insult to injury, the Gods decided to further punish their creations by encasing those fragments within shells of flesh and bone, earth and water. No longer would they be able to live for eons, but were now trapped in mortal prisons where they would experience pain and eventual death. Thus, the first humans and animals were formed. Now, deep within those physical forms still burned a spark of that pure, divine light and energy, and it was that very thing that gave these new creatures drive and solace in the dark, scary world they inhabited. While those bodies would eventually fade away, that spark would always remain, waiting until the time when it would fill a new form, and it could experience the world again.

Every once in a while, despite the Gods initial attempts to keep them apart, those fragments of light and energy would stumble upon one another, other pieces of it's original being. And in the short time that the mortal forms would allow, those fragments would flare and burn so brightly together that even the Gods would take notice, and revel in those moments of perfection and joy. Today, we call those joinings "soulmates".

- - - Updated - - -

Really,but Vodka is kinda spicy,right?

I wouldn't say "Spicy" is the right term for it. It's got a nice, pleasant burn though. How else are the Russians going to make it through the winters?

[anunitu]

Re: Nature of Souls

These days I think they have spicy Vodka..I mean lemon,lime,apple Vodka..maybe cinnamon vodka???

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Nature of Souls

Feelings are chemicals in the brain. Yet there is something I feel around my heart. I think it's my soul since it can't be a brain chemical, can it?

Gleb, everything you feel you feel in the brain. The brain then projects it to a body part.

[Nightingale]

Re: Nature of Souls

As pagans, what do you belief is the nature of the soul? How does it differ from Abrahamic, Hindu, and Buddhist concepts of the soul?

okay first of all, I love this question. second of all, if you will allow me to get really poetic and really metaphysical....

I think that the soul is something that connects us to the divine realm (or realms). It's a piece of us that is connected to everything in the universe, like an invisible thread that runs around the world and the sky and the heavens, and it's made of something intangible, like light or love. When we feel connected to something larger than ourselves, like our god or gods (for me it's gods), that's where we feel it. But it doesn't have to be a religious thing either. When we feel love for someone, be it a parent, a friend, a soulmate, a pet, I think we feel that in our souls.

I believe that everyone and everything has a soul. Human beings do, animals do, plants and trees and mountains do too. The Native Americans call these spirits. I think they're what make us unique individuals. Everyone's soul is different, yet similar, and everything is interconnected.

I actually have an example of a time I was incredibly aware of the soul: every time I feel connected to my patron god, it's like something in my chest lights up and there's music in the air, like a beautiful symphony, and I feel like I could fly. Everything is light and warmth and laughter, and it's the most wonderful feeling in the world. It's empowering, too. And I also feel this when I see a large group of friends join together for a common goal... that's the activist in me talking.

Basically, think of every time you thought your heart was soaring, and I think that's evidence of a soul.

[Thrudr]

Re: Nature of Souls

It's funny that the day this thread was posted, it was "National Tell A Story Day", and so I told my wife a little tale. I'm not sure of it's origin, but since it relates to the topic, I'll tell it here.

Back when the world was young, and the Gods had just finished creating the physical world that we now call Earth, they took a moment and looked out over all they had made and decided that, despite it being a thing of beauty, it felt empty. So, they all came together to meet once again to discuss how to rectify the situation. Their decision was to create life, to be able to enjoy and experience the lands that they had made. Each god took a tiny portion of their own divine force, and combined it together to form beings of pure, divine light and energy, and set them loose into the world.

For a time, as was well and good. The Gods took pleasure in their creations, and the beings of divine light and energy were truly happy in their new home. But that happiness was short-lived. You see, the Gods had taken from themselves fragments of their best traits, their love, their joy, their, pleasure, and their hope, and so these beings existed without any worries, fears, or negative emotions of any kind. Because of this, the Gods grew jealous of their own creations, as they felt that it was wrong that what they had made should be so free, while they themselves could still suffer. In their anger, they collectively struck out at the beings of divine light and energy, tearing them asunder and scattering the pieces to far corners of the planet.

To add insult to injury, the Gods decided to further punish their creations by encasing those fragments within shells of flesh and bone, earth and water. No longer would they be able to live for eons, but were now trapped in mortal prisons where they would experience pain and eventual death. Thus, the first humans and animals were formed. Now, deep within those physical forms still burned a spark of that pure, divine light and energy, and it was that very thing that gave these new creatures drive and solace in the dark, scary world they inhabited. While those bodies would eventually fade away, that spark would always remain, waiting until the time when it would fill a new form, and it could experience the world again.

Every once in a while, despite the Gods initial attempts to keep them apart, those fragments of light and energy would stumble upon one another, other pieces of it's original being. And in the short time that the mortal forms would allow, those fragments would flare and burn so brightly together that even the Gods would take notice, and revel in those moments of perfection and joy. Today, we call those joinings "soulmates".

That's a nice story Munin! I didn't know this one. Thank you for sharing.

[Näre]

Re: Nature of Souls

I used to have in-depth conversations about this matter with a Christian online friend. I was certain I didn't have a soul. (But secretly, I wanted one! So if you've got on one there... name your price. ) Then I wrote a story in which a friendly but ignorant character described soul as something "that keeps you alive and warm". Something like that. Now I actually kind of like that definition in all it's cheesiness. However, I wouldn'ŧ give that as an answer.

To me, soul is a concept that belongs to a grey area along with gods and various other things that are and will remain a mystery to me. There is something, a spark of spirit, energy, life that could be called a soul but soul is only a word and not always fitting for those complex ideas and experiences. How about art and music that "touches the soul"? It is not just some impersonal, universal phenomenon that responds, there are emotions and past events involved. Perhaps soul is the meeting point between the deeply universal spiritual experience and the deeply mundane human experience (both of them as valuable). Actually, I kind of like that idea (just came up with that, I never realised that brainstorming on PF is this good for your beliefs!). I was never a fan of this "soul as the True Self" idea which of course can mean a lot of different things depending on your definition of the true self but I'm referring to the idea of some kind of predestined core persona with certain interests, jobs and whathaveyou that you have to achieve to "fulfill your Soul's Purpose [with capital letters]". I'm pretty sure that whatever a soul might be, at least it's not a to-do list.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, I'm tired and burping out silly ideas. But they feel like good ideas at this time of the night.

[Azvanna]

Re: Nature of Souls

Perhaps soul is the meeting point between the deeply universal spiritual experience and the deeply mundane human experience (both of them as valuable).

So, "soul" as something to be experienced instead of something to possess?

[Näre]

Re: Nature of Souls

So, "soul" as something to be experienced instead of something to possess?

Both, I'd say. But I'm leaning a bit more towards the definition of soul as something that is experienced/experiencing instead of a static "thing" to possess.
But honestly, I've no clue. Defining things is not my forte. It probably doesn't even make sense. I just tried to be clever/wise.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Nature of Souls

Just a quick question to ponder:

Could the soul possess the body and mind instead of the other way around?

[anunitu]

Re: Nature of Souls

Are you talking about a symbiotic type relationship? Spirit possess the brute Animal?

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Nature of Souls

I suppose it could be a symbiotic relationship, especially if the spirit is neutral or benevolent. In my opinion the spirit lives separately but can act with the body as well. I think (believe?) that most people don't interact with their spirits very often.

[R. Eugene Laughlin]

Re: Nature of Souls

Different traditions parse things differently, on both conceptual and linguistic levels. Here's food for thought.

My (mostly pantheistic) preference is that spirit is a universal thing, all pervading lifeforce if you will. In contrast, soul is a personal, individuating thing: the sum of what makes an individual the unique instantiation that they are. In that sense, spirit is a generic force that never changes. The idea of spirit is that all interactive things, past, present, and future were/are animated by the same, unitary force. In contrast, a soul is a unique thing, a thing that learns and evolves with experience.

With that basic differentiation in mind, the spirit-matter thing is an interesting contemplation. What is matter without spirit? What is spirit without matter? Did one come before the other or have they always been a package deal?

Then it's fun to wonder about the creation and durability of a soul. Did the learning and evolving thing that makes Person X the unique being it is exist in some manner of speaking before Person X was born? Will that thing continue to learn and evolve after Person X dies? Soul in the context of non-humans is also often part of this conversation. A plant is a unique instantiation after all. Does a plant learn and evolve with experience?

The soul conversation easily ties back into the spirit-matter thing. Person X dies, and the body decays. The decay itself means the matter of the body continues to be interactive, can become fertilizer for the plant, and so on. Those dynamics mean that spirit is still doing what spirit does after the death of an individual, but obviously at a different level of analysis, obviously without the soul of Person X (or the plant or whatever) being involved.