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    Censorship

    Here's my take on censorship. I don't believe in censorship because everybody have to right to speak in their mind. I believe in freedom of speech because people are free to speak on what's on their mind. Yes there's also hate speech involve and people don't want to hear it. But without freedom of speech it would taken away the people right for free speech. That's my take on censorship. What's your take on this topic?

    #2
    Re: Censorship

    You can't shout "fire!" in a crowded theatre.

    A lot of people are completely unaware that with rights come responsibility. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, and two wrongs don't make a right so whilst retaliation is wrong, when you act like an ass don't be surprised when you get bit. That aside I oppose all blasphemy laws; but there is a difference between expressing your belief and being an antagonistic jerkwad. I also support the right to criticize government, meanwhile I cannot think of any reason to censor beyond self censorship (shouting "skinheads are all stupid" at a white power march will get you a punch in the face, even if the march is wrong in principle).

    Basically discretion is the better part of valour, and we need to be smart about when we exercise free speech. The government should not, however, have any say on the issue.
    I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
    Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
    But that day you know I left my money
    And I thought of you only
    All that copper glowing fine

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Censorship

      Freedom of Speech works when everyone on every side is present in equality; censorship works when a unified & popular majority (or autocracy/dictator) is present to deal with a specific situation in a very specific way, a way that avoids dissent (Eg: British Army Recruitment in WW1 was done entirely via propaganda for the majority of the war, censorship was necessary to buffer this).

      I like freedom of speech, however censorship is a necessary evil for (the majority) of modern governments who have to deal with a wide variety of problems produced by a wide variety of independent and radical-thinking individuals (insert terrorism, including the recent problems with Isis).

      Censorship is a bad thing when it goes against the principles of a 'good' democratic system, or when it's used to subjugate those who themselves aren't living under a 'good' democratic system; censorship and propaganda are very dangerous interlinked problems that aren't going to go away.

      Go Go Origen!

      I'm always looking for new and cool book and food recommendations, feel free to message me ;P

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        #4
        Re: Censorship

        I sort of feel that censorship is one of those words that's tossed around too much and too often, sort of like racism. The moment something happens and folks feel that what they feel strongly about is being glossed over or swept under the rug, they like to cry "CENSORSHIP" at the top of their lungs. In actuality, it's really a thing of necessity, when handled properly. As those above me had said, shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded environment is simply a bad idea, or spouting out your piece when in the vast minority can be just as equally dangerous. Of course, this isn't quite the full extent of censorship.

        In the past years, we've seen the banning of books, the changing of language usage in said books, and the forbiddance of certain topics in all forms of media and social situations. Attempting to remove sexual images, foul language, and derogatory material from common perusal could be seen as censorship, especially when such things are becried to be "art". This especially is used in cases of pornographic images, but is not limited to such.

        I'm truly torn with the removal of some things from the general perusal of the public. When it comes to classic literature, I do not see the need to ban books because they no longer share today's sensitivity to certain language usage, as there is more to these then just those "offensive" words, as the lessons, subjects, and stories within have withstood the test of time and can still pass on knowledge that is relevant even in today's world. But, I do not see the purpose of exposing blatant nudity and sexual images to minors, but this also can fall into many categories. A beautiful drawing or photo of a nude man or woman is truly art, and I could understand how the exposure to such can only make others comfortable with their own forms and to break the "taboo" that nudity = sex. But, to say an image of a man or woman's lower face and bare chest, mouth adorned with a ball-gag, should be a publicly displayed bit of "art" it totally different. In one, it is about the shape, the form, and the innocence of the body, but in the other is it a tool for a sexual nature.

        When it comes to speech, yes, there are "rules" that should be followed, and the censorship should be not so much a predetermined idea, but something that is done out of common sense and polite discretion. Yes, you CAN walk into an elementary school and start spouting obscenities and racial slurs, but why would you?

        Censorship is something that is required for society to progress, though it is more something that should be based out of conscience and discretion, rather than out of just a desire to try to not offend anyone. That is an impossibility, s even when you avoid offense, you can still offend with your inability to say what you truly mean.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Censorship

          Censorship by who?

          If we're talking about the government censoring ideas by force then I'm largely opposed but there are specific scenarios where I tolerate it in small doses. I don't see a need to put up with slander, libel or in shouting "Fire!!!" In a enclosed space for instance.

          If we're talking about private forums reserving the option censor discussion on their website....

          I am all for maintaining my expansive ability to deny all of you (exempting Thal and Juni) the right to speak freely on PF
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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            #6
            Re: Censorship

            Personally I think people tend to confuse just what censorship is just like they confuse what freedom of speech really is.

            Figure censorship is basically some figure both telling you and deciding for you what you can hear, read, say, etc. Always with some notion of control being behind it and used to prevent the censored from gaining some form of information.

            Yet when applied to something like this private forum it's not strictly censorship. In most cases your not being controlled to prevent you from gaining some sort of information. At worse your being censored for utilizing speech that is offensive, trying to push your own notion of control over something and implying your deciding what is right. I truly think it's different in that your (collective usage) not being denied something or prevented from gaining knowledge your just being held to a different standard of ethical and morale behavior and acceptability.

            Which crosses over in my opinion into the notion of free speech. Especially in the aspect that freedom of speech does not give or bestow upon anyone the right to make a statement and not be held accountable for that statement. Nor does it remove them from any agreements they've made about adhering to practices, procedures and acceptable behavior.
            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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              #7
              Re: Censorship

              People get confused over freedom of speech and freedom from consequence.
              Satan is my spirit animal

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                #8
                Re: Censorship

                There are several kinds of censorship, as others have stated ... Blatant censorship by the powers that be for their own nefarious schemes ... The more constructive criticism of the private sector such as this forum for the pleasantry of the majority and self censorship to keep yourself out of trouble or looing the fool ...
                I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


                Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

                The Chief nodded in agreement.

                The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

                The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

                Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."



                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Censorship

                  Censorship has taken a more insidious turn in recent years with the rise of the political correctness machine. If your opinion is not popular or deemed offensive it is ostracized. Quinten Tarantino vs. The NYPD is the most recent example but the most extreme political correctness "censorship" movements seem to come from the Left Wing. People have lost careers due to an I'll timed offensive word being recorded. Speech is being policed and its not even the government doing it.

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                    #10
                    Re: Censorship

                    Strictly speaking, it is only censorship if carried out by the government, because it carries legal consequences. If one bookshop decides not to sell a book but all the others do, that's not censorship. If the bookshop owner then petitions, successfully, for the government to pass on their ban universally, that is censorship. It is not censorship to watch what you say or have a post changed here, because there is nothing stopping you creating an identical forum where your choice of language is allowed. Censorship is government enforced and thus applicable anywhere under their jurisdiction and carries a criminal penalty. None of the mods here can have you imprisoned for anything you say (although they may report you to the police if it is really serious, in fact they may be obliged).
                    I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                    Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                    But that day you know I left my money
                    And I thought of you only
                    All that copper glowing fine

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Censorship

                      Censorship is okay in certain arenas, such as at work. By holding my tongue at certain customers I maintain a professional demeanor which keeps the business going smoothly. When it comes to expressing my feelings in an argument, even then it is better not to call the person I may be arguing with a foul name just because it is how I feel in the moment, because I love them and deep down I do not mean such horrible things or I do not want to make the argument worse if I may be arguing with someone I don't find all that wonderful. When it comes to my music or personal beliefs I am not going to censor my lyrics or words because sometimes things need to be expressed in an honestly harsh or offensive manner (not purposely so, but sometimes honesty comes off as offensive and abrasive - with that said, I do my best not to use explicit language in general when expressing myself).

                      Sometimes words can cause violence which is where censorship can be important, but in such situations it may be because the person reacting is just immature, on drugs they cannot control, or are having a very bad day. I think censorship is bad when the media censors so much of the good that is happening in the world for their own bias of fear based propaganda or when someone makes an individual or group feel less then equal and slanders them just because of a disagreement. Personal censorship is important but has to be balanced with honest expression.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Censorship

                        Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                        Censorship has taken a more insidious turn in recent years with the rise of the political correctness machine. If your opinion is not popular or deemed offensive it is ostracized. Quinten Tarantino vs. The NYPD is the most recent example but the most extreme political correctness "censorship" movements seem to come from the Left Wing. People have lost careers due to an I'll timed offensive word being recorded. Speech is being policed and its not even the government doing it.
                        speaking of plain idiotic political correctness, fun fact;
                        My Uni's SU actually banned sombrero's used in a Mexican restaurant's advertising stunt because they were deemed racist..
                        (source)

                        Go Go Origen!

                        I'm always looking for new and cool book and food recommendations, feel free to message me ;P

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Censorship

                          As others have pointed out, censorship, by the government, is forbidden by the first amendment, except in certain cases (speech intended to incite violence, safeguarding national secrets, such as troop movements).

                          Censorship is not controlled in private individuals and the property they control ("don't curse in MY house," "don't curse in my restaurant"), by institutions ("if you publicly say something that embarrasses this company, you will be fired", or "we will not lend our 'seal of approval' to this text by publishing/providing/selling it").

                          Inappropriate/slanderous/libelous/invasion of privacy is controlled after the fact by civil suits and the awarding of damage$. Assuming, of course, that the slanderer has the balls to identify his/her self, rather than sniping from the shadows.

                          The choice of a college (or any institution) to not provide a forum for any individual is not censorship. It is a legally allowed, calculated decision to protect to reputation of the institution, and serve the perceived needs of the people it serves.

                          Whether this is a correct choice or not is a different question.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                            #14
                            Re: Censorship

                            I personally think universities should allow all debate on equal terms (ie debate a Wahabbist, but the audience will not be segregated). Universities should be challenging places, not 'safe' places. There was an incident involving some feminist course that banned certain words and the use of them would result in you failing your course. I think it was actually the subject of a thread here. Universities that ban certain individuals out of fear of causing offense are in my opinion weak and those who find the concept of a visiting speaker someone they disagree with intolerable they should leave a place of thinking and go lock themselves in a room full of cushions.
                            I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                            Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                            But that day you know I left my money
                            And I thought of you only
                            All that copper glowing fine

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Censorship

                              When you are in my home you can talk about whatever you wish until I say that the topic is out of bounds. Forums are the same way. Government just wants to protect themselves from the truth.
                              The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                              I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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