Alternatives to Capitalism

[Azvanna]

Part of my distress with climate change is due in part to our economic climate. I don't like that many people are pushed to their financial limit to buy basics and miss out on quality of life. I don't like that we are taking from our earth faster than she can regenerate and that we are wasting so much.

So if the goals are economic and environmental sustainability, what economic systems could support this? Is there a way capitalism can support those goals?

[thalassa]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

Unrestrained capitalism? No. Any system built on infinite growth is doomed to fail. But capitalism with restraints and limits and regulations, yeah...if they are ones that limit human greed.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

I think the problem with capitalism is that it's not really a political system at all. It's purely an economic system. You can have capitalism without restraints, or blend it with various forms of social systems to create something a bit humane. Like socialism, it exists on a scale. You don't have capitalism or not capitalism...there are options in between.

Socialism and capitalism can and do mix. You can allow private enterprise and an open market without compromising regulation, state enterprise, or social structures. Many democratic socialist and social democratic governments allow private companies to exist and allow them to operate in markets. However, their operations may not defy the laws of the country that govern things like health and safety. Such countries also usually take direct control over necessities such as health care and education, and many include state-run companies that control things like power and transportation. In such a government, it is totally possible to place restrict business activities that harm the environment, form state-run corporations that develop environmental alternatives, and subsidize environmentally friendly practices. These things already happen in parts of Europe. I think the problems stem from the fact that the trend since the 80s has been to reduce government activities in favor of private enterprise, and it takes a big government to take on stuff like that.

[anunitu]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

Unrestrained capitalism was(back in the long ago) so bad that laws to control it were passed,like anti monopoly laws as well as restraints on certain things that hurt many people.
They make a big deal on socialism,but capitalism seems to work best with a bit of socialism mixed in.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

The thing that drives me crazy is that conservatives act like capitalism and socialism are mutually exclusive. Even HEAVILY socialist systems can have some capitalism in the mix. I blame the Cold War.

[anunitu]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

China seems to have embraced a bit of Capitalism these days.

[Nightingale]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

Part of my distress with climate change is due in part to our economic climate. I don't like that many people are pushed to their financial limit to buy basics and miss out on quality of life. I don't like that we are taking from our earth faster than she can regenerate and that we are wasting so much.

So if the goals are economic and environmental sustainability, what economic systems could support this? Is there a way capitalism can support those goals?

I think that the only way you're going to get capitalism to support those goals is if you mix it with socialism, like DanieMarie suggested. Democratic Socialism would be a good thing for you to look into I think, if you're concerned about this.

also worth mentioning: idk what the situation is in Australia, but in America (where I am) there is still a lot of Cold War propaganda going around about socialism, a lot of people who don't understand what it means to be a socialist.

[Norse_Angel]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

China seems to have embraced a bit of Capitalism these days.

Yeah, I see they're slowly going for the American Capitalistic system where a huge gap of wealth separates the common people from the rich. Also, they seem to understand the ole-American value that paying unfair wages is a large part of the working system of things.

Any members living in Scandinavia, be grateful, your countries know what they're doing.

[Nightingale]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

it's perfectly okay to be a socialist (I say with a socialist voice, wearing socialist colors, holding socialist paraphernalia)

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The thing that drives me crazy is that conservatives act like capitalism and socialism are mutually exclusive. Even HEAVILY socialist systems can have some capitalism in the mix. I blame the Cold War.

absolutely blame the Cold War

[DanieMarie]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

China seems to have embraced a bit of Capitalism these days.

Oh, China has been into capitalism for a while. As soon as it had access to foreign markets, it totally embraced the concept. I'd say it's not even a true communist country. It still has a fair amount of state enterprise, but then again, so does British Columbia and many other Canadian provinces. And it has far fewer regulations than most so-called "capitalist" countries.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

The thing that drives me crazy is that conservatives act like capitalism and socialism are mutually exclusive. Even HEAVILY socialist systems can have some capitalism in the mix. I blame the Cold War.

The fact that the Nazis billed themselves as the National Socialist Party sure didn't help things...

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

Bernie Sanders 2016

[DanieMarie]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

The fact that the Nazis billed themselves as the National Socialist Party sure didn't help things...

Absolutely no one else associates socialism with Naziism....

actually, in most of Europe, "Socialist" isn't even a dirty word. Various social democratic parties adopted the term far before the Nazis came along and continued to use it after.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

Just so ya know, I don't confuse the two. I'm just sayin'...

Also, the anti-totalitarian book by Orwell use EngSoc (English Socialism) as it's antagonist.

My point (if I have one, but I'm not sure that I do) is that many people have a bad taste in their mouths from ideas of totalitarian socialism.

Once more, for emphasis and utter and complete clarity, I do not confuse them, but some people do.

Also "absolutely no one" is a statement I do not think you are at all qualified to make.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Alternatives to Capitalism

Just so ya know, I don't confuse the two. I'm just sayin'...

Also, the anti-totalitarian book by Orwell use EngSoc (English Socialism) as it's antagonist.

My point (if I have one, but I'm not sure that I do) is that many people have a bad taste in their mouths from ideas of totalitarian socialism.

Once more, for emphasis and utter and complete clarity, I do not confuse them, but some people do.

Also "absolutely no one" is a statement I do not think you are at all qualified to make.

No, probably not. It was a strong choice of words and I shouldn't have used those terms. I also didn't think -you- confused the two.

Also, Orwell isn't the best example, I think. He was SUPER anti-Stalinist and anti-communist in general, but he still identified as a democratic socialist and supported socialist policies in Britain. He felt that the USSR didn't practice true socialism and feared the spread of Stalinism.