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    #16
    Re: Smoking

    Definitions change according to the source. In your case you are right.
    The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
    I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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      #17
      Re: Smoking

      Originally posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
      Now, talking about how it's the additives in the tobacco that may cause the addiction, the very same thing can be said about certain additives in food. We do not NEED fast food, yet people crave and yearn for it as much as they do with drugs, alcohol, or tobacco. Also, one of the most interesting things people fail to realize is that caffeine is, in fact, one of the world's most addictive substances and tops the charts for the number of people addicted to it. That, therefore, makes things such as sodas, coffees, and teas as actual addictions, even though we "need" to drink as well. So I would have to disagree that just because it is something that is necessary to live, it is possible to form an addiction and therefore to indulge to excess.
      Very well said there HM.
      I smoke additive free pipe tobacco, which I do end up spending some extra money to obtain, but it's much healthier for me than regular cigarette tobacco. There are so many dangerous chemicals and additives that go into American fast food. On the topic of soda, I would love to see someone consume a can of Coke for every cigarette, or pipe bowl pack I smoke a day. I'll even take you to the hospital to get your stomach pumped. Everyone has a guilty pleasure, and while smoking isn't the healthiest thing to do, there are things just as bad that you don't even second guess doing.
      "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
      And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
      They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
      The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
      - Finn's Saga

      http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

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        #18
        Re: Smoking

        Originally posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
        Now, talking about how it's the additives in the tobacco that may cause the addiction, the very same thing can be said about certain additives in food. We do not NEED fast food, yet people crave and yearn for it as much as they do with drugs, alcohol, or tobacco. Also, one of the most interesting things people fail to realize is that caffeine is, in fact, one of the world's most addictive substances and tops the charts for the number of people addicted to it. That, therefore, makes things such as sodas, coffees, and teas as actual addictions, even though we "need" to drink as well. So I would have to disagree that just because it is something that is necessary to live, it is possible to form an addiction and therefore to indulge to excess.
        Most people who consume fast food do not get addicted to it. I'm totally against additives in food and absolutely think things like high calorie content should be labelled and that dangerous stuff like trans fats should come with warning labels, but I still don't think that it's in the same category as tobacco products. Tobacco is -proven- to be more addictive and cancer rates for smokers are a -lot- higher than they are for other substances. I also want to make it VERY clear that using the fast food industry as an argument will not win me over. I'm so against the whole concept it's not even funny. I think companies like McDonalds are the scourge of the earth (literally...they contribute to a ton of environmentally unfriendly practices) and I'd love to see them gone.

        Also, caffeine may be pretty addictive, but it's not related to nearly as many health problems. You can easily consume 1-2 cups of strong coffee per day without any serious health consequences whatsoever. It's also really, really easy to kick the habit. You have a headache for like a day, maybe two. Quitting smoking is in a whole other ballpark. I've quit caffeine a few times (never because I cared that I was addicted to it, but once I lots my taste for all caffeine products for some unknown reason, and the other two times I had surgery and I wasn't allowed to consume caffeine). It was not fun for a good day, but after that I never cared about it and didn't crave it. Apparently, this is common for people who kick their caffeine habit. Oh, and I've had coffee daily and habitually since I was 14. Oh, and if you're addicted to caffeine, you don't need to drink more and more of it to get the same kick. You can easily cut back as well. If you have like three cups a day, cutting back to a small cup is a breeze. As long as you get -some- caffeine, you don't get those nasty withdrawal headaches. Compared to the cranky mess my boyfriend is when he doesn't have a cigarette for a few hours, I'd say it's not too bad.

        By the way, I'm not super into the warning labels, because from my experience, smokers completely ignore them anyway. however, I support de-branding tobacco and banning tobacco advertising. And yes, I'd support banning fast food advertising as well.

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          #19
          Re: Smoking

          Started smoking cigs (from my grandma) and the occasional pipe (borrowed from my grandpa) at 9 ... Quit when I was 45 ... When I quit I was working as a backup and prep cook ... The head food burner and I had been talking about quitting together for a while ... One day I was driving to work and had to pull over to the side of the road so I could cough up a buncha crap so I could breathe ... When I got to work I went to the kitchen, grabbed his pack and mine and tossed them in the garbage ... "There, we just quit smoking" ... That was 15 years ago ... I will admit to keeping an unit cigar in my mouth sometimes ... I love that rum or vanilla taste ...
          I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


          Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

          The Chief nodded in agreement.

          The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

          The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

          Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."



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            #20
            Re: Smoking

            Just doing a quick math thing for those interested in the side-effects of caffeine per mg vs nicotine per mg

            A red bull has 80mg of caffeine
            A cigarette has anywhere between 8-20mg of nicotine

            To overdose on caffeine, you must consume anywhere from 1000mg-2000mg, for most people, this number lies around 1260mg
            To overdose on nicotine, one must consume 1750-2000mg

            For internal consumption, caffeine is much more dangerous in a short scale time than nicotine.

            I know most people don't drink that much caffeine, but substance vs substance, the numbers show caffeine as the real danger to Health in a quick scale of time
            "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
            And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
            They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
            The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
            - Finn's Saga

            http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Smoking

              Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
              Most people who consume fast food do not get addicted to it. I'm totally against additives in food and absolutely think things like high calorie content should be labelled and that dangerous stuff like trans fats should come with warning labels, but I still don't think that it's in the same category as tobacco products. Tobacco is -proven- to be more addictive and cancer rates for smokers are a -lot- higher than they are for other substances. I also want to make it VERY clear that using the fast food industry as an argument will not win me over.
              The point I'm trying to make, and one that you seem to have not addressed, is the fact that yes, you CAN become addicted to food. Just because the ability to quit such things is easier, or the fact that it may not have as far reaching or immediate health issues related to it, doesn't mean that it can be an addiction. You said that it's not addictive if it's necessary to live, so therefore food cannot be addictive. You can easily google "food addiction" or "eating addiction" and find any number of articles, from psychological to biological to simply drivel that can support the fact that there is a viable form of addiction there.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
              Just doing a quick math thing for those interested in the side-effects of caffeine per mg vs nicotine per mg

              A red bull has 80mg of caffeine
              A cigarette has anywhere between 8-20mg of nicotine

              To overdose on caffeine, you must consume anywhere from 1000mg-2000mg, for most people, this number lies around 1260mg
              To overdose on nicotine, one must consume 1750-2000mg

              For internal consumption, caffeine is much more dangerous in a short scale time than nicotine.

              I know most people don't drink that much caffeine, but substance vs substance, the numbers show caffeine as the real danger to Health in a quick scale of time
              Actually, I had worked with a man who, by the age of 32, had suffered from two heart attacks that they had traced back to an excessive consumption of Red Bull. He was downing at least six, and sometimes upwards of fifteen, cans of it a day.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Smoking

                You CAN be addicted to food, but you also NEED food to live. You don't need all types of food to live, but if you want to keep breathing, you have to eat something. You do not need to smoke any tobacco product to live.

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
                Just doing a quick math thing for those interested in the side-effects of caffeine per mg vs nicotine per mg

                A red bull has 80mg of caffeine
                A cigarette has anywhere between 8-20mg of nicotine

                To overdose on caffeine, you must consume anywhere from 1000mg-2000mg, for most people, this number lies around 1260mg
                To overdose on nicotine, one must consume 1750-2000mg

                For internal consumption, caffeine is much more dangerous in a short scale time than nicotine.

                I know most people don't drink that much caffeine, but substance vs substance, the numbers show caffeine as the real danger to Health in a quick scale of time
                LOL at the caffeine being more dangerous than tobacco.

                VERY few people overdose on either substance. You'd have to smoke a lot or drink a lot of coffee to OD. The damage is in the long-term effects. Negative long-term effects are much more rare in people who drink caffeine than people who smoke. Yes, there is the odd person who gets hypertension or severe heart problems from drinking too much caffeine, but that is a very small minority of people who drink caffeine. In comparison, the rates of lung, throat, and mouth cancer in smokers is highly significant. That's why the whole anti-smoking movement started. It's not some government move to control your habit. Tobacco is taxable and in many cases very profitable for governments. It's an effort to keep people from dying of cancer or suffering from other severe conditions such as emphysema.

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                  #23
                  Re: Smoking

                  The other thing being forgotten is that ingested and metabolized are not the same.
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                    #24
                    Re: Smoking

                    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                    The other thing being forgotten is that ingested and metabolized are not the same.
                    What I was going to say. Thank you.

                    I quit smoking oh...ten or so years ago. I wasn't a heavy smoker, but even now, I get cravings to light up when I'm stressed.
                    Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

                    Honorary Nord.

                    Habbalah Vlogs

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                      #25
                      Re: Smoking

                      I was thinking of trying to smoke but so many people that smoking is bad so I never try it and took their advice.

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                        #26
                        Re: Smoking

                        My first smoke was at 13, and I got caught. I smoked on and off till 15. At 15 my best friend had her first one and so I smoked from then on till I was 25. KP hated that I smoked. I was really only a social smoker with the occasional one when really stressed but I stopped smoking at 25. To curb my cravings when we would be out with friends that did smoke I would hold one unlit in my hand. Haven't had one since. Now when KP gets really sloshed, which is hardly ever, he wants a one and I've caught that jerk with one in his hand.
                        "If you want to know what a man is like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." -- Sirius Black

                        "Time is an illusion, lunch time doubly so."-- Ford Prefect

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                          #27
                          Re: Smoking

                          Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
                          Just doing a quick math thing for those interested in the side-effects of caffeine per mg vs nicotine per mg

                          A red bull has 80mg of caffeine
                          A cigarette has anywhere between 8-20mg of nicotine

                          To overdose on caffeine, you must consume anywhere from 1000mg-2000mg, for most people, this number lies around 1260mg
                          To overdose on nicotine, one must consume 1750-2000mg

                          For internal consumption, caffeine is much more dangerous in a short scale time than nicotine.

                          I know most people don't drink that much caffeine, but substance vs substance, the numbers show caffeine as the real danger to Health in a quick scale of time
                          To clarify you should probably use the example of an e-cigarette. Whilst nicotine is harmful, there are far more harmful ingredients in a cigarette that really show you should never smoke a single one, such as the Polonium based pesticide used. The same Polonium used to kill Alexander Litvinenko, by the KGB.

                          DanieMarie, in defense of Norse_Angel, they were specifically talking about nicotine, not tobacco, since nicotine and caffeine have similar effects.
                          I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                          Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                          But that day you know I left my money
                          And I thought of you only
                          All that copper glowing fine

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                            #28
                            Re: Smoking

                            I don't smoke. My mother smoked and she eventually had a pacemaker. My father smoked and died of a heart attack at the age of 56. Let's see. Oh my nana smoked till they took one of her lungs out.

                            So yeah. I don't smoke.

                            And I still had the heart attack!

                            As for which is worse, caffiene or nicotine? Well I've never heard of anyone getting sick from second hand caffiene. And yes, I've gotten sick from second hand nicotine. More importantly I got a burn on my arm from the ash of a cig I didn't even smoke. I was 3.
                            Satan is my spirit animal

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                              #29
                              Re: Smoking

                              Smoke is largely carcinogens, not nicotine.
                              I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                              Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                              But that day you know I left my money
                              And I thought of you only
                              All that copper glowing fine

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Smoking

                                I actually had my first cigarette a few weeks ago. My friend asked if I wanted a drag and I was curious so we shared it. Not something I think I'd do regularly but I can see the appeal.
                                Circe

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