Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Juvenile offenders & life sentances

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 7
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 3 4 5 6 7 template Next
    #76
    Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

    Originally posted by Briton View Post
    Agree with PM. Vengeance is not synonymous with justice. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
    Actually, the original saying in Hebrew translates more as "No more than an Eye for an Eye"; essentially, regular vengeance is fine, but not disproportionate vengeance.

    No matter if regular vengeance is okay or not, the purpose of the ideal justice system should be rehabilitation, not retribution. Retribution based punishment came about because many old beliefs had the god(s) punish wrongdoers, and be a bit careless regarding collateral damage, if they weren't mundanely punished. I would be unsuprised if that's where the modern justice system got many of it's roots. Rehabilition of criminals, combined with a relatively light punishment, is almost always more effective than just a big punishment, because threat of punishment only scales in efficiency up to a certain level, while increased rehabilition also only scales to a certain point, but that point is decriminalization. So, alongside adults, the punishment of adolescents and below should be focused on rehabilitation. Life sentences are not conductive to rehabilitation.

    Comment

      #77
      Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

      Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
      When I was three years old. I understand that murder was wrong. I was a pretty smart three year old back then. And I'm that some 3-year-old can understand murder is wrong at all levels.
      I find that hard to believe. That as a three year old you understood that murder was wrong. Three year olds can only understand so much so saying that you understood that killing was wrong at that age is a bit hard to believe.
      "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

      "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

      Comment

        #78
        Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

        Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
        I find that hard to believe. That as a three year old you understood that murder was wrong. Three year olds can only understand so much so saying that you understood that killing was wrong at that age is a bit hard to believe.
        Believe what you want to believe. I don't want to get off-topic my parents taught me at a very early age. Better safe than sorry.

        Comment

          #79
          Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

          Life sentences aren't meant for rehabilitation. They are society saying, "You've screwed up so badly that we're done with you," while not taking the extra step of killing the convict. I don't really take issue with their existence but I have abundant issues with applying them to small children.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


          Comment

            #80
            Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

            Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
            Life sentences aren't meant for rehabilitation. They are society saying, "You've screwed up so badly that we're done with you," while not taking the extra step of killing the convict. I don't really take issue with their existence but I have abundant issues with applying them to small children.
            I never said it was. I believe that life sentence is giving the child a serious remainder that murder is wrong.

            Comment

              #81
              Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

              Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
              I never said it was. I believe that life sentence is giving the child a serious remainder that murder is wrong.
              I wasn't actually responding to you. My post was a belated response to Herbert and I probably should've quoted him when making it but I was distracted at the time.
              life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


              Comment

                #82
                Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                I never said it was. I believe that life sentence is giving the child a serious remainder that murder is wrong.
                A serious reminder can be given without requiring they spend their entire life living the lesson.
                Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

                Honorary Nord.

                Habbalah Vlogs

                Comment

                  #83
                  Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                  His opinion won't really change, so. Even then, he'll still think little kids should be imprisoned, etc.
                  "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

                  "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

                  Comment

                    #84
                    Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                    Life sentences aren't punitive and they're not instructive. They're social prophylaxis.

                    Comment

                      #85
                      Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                      Not sure how 3 became the age of discussion but personally I do not think any three year old is old enough or mature enough to murder. That aside I do think that as a western society we have collectively reduced and lowered the maturing of our children. Say a five year old in a third world nation or pre-industrial nation is far more mature responsibility wise than most 5 year olds in the west. The idea of death is much different than what a 5 year old in the west who never does anything shows.

                      Consider say a child raised under the Amish. At five the child already has many chores to do may be present and possibly involved in slaughtering the animals. So their experience, responsibilities and social expectations are much different than say the 5 year old who has no chores, responsibilities, etc. Our western society tends to restrict many of the activities that even influenced and molded us 10 - 15 years ago. Figure ten to twenty years ago a five year old could and many times did walk to the park, the store, to school when a bit older and the experiences used to guide them. Today parents will potentially get charged with a form of child abuse and endangerment simply by leaving the child to play alone in the park or their very own yard.

                      All of which I think is serving to change the mental, psychological and physilogical maturing of the child / youth and when they will gain concepts of action, accountability, responsibility, culpability, etc. Sorry mind not working right at the moment so better end this before I confuse people even more
                      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                      Comment

                        #86
                        Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                        A child shouldn't get any special treatment when he/she murder a person.

                        Comment

                          #87
                          Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                          I'm convinced.

                          I am all for killing toddlers. Lethal injection juice via their baba will do.
                          Satan is my spirit animal

                          Comment

                            #88
                            Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                            Originally posted by Herbert View Post
                            Actually, the original saying in Hebrew translates more as "No more than an Eye for an Eye"; essentially, regular vengeance is fine, but not disproportionate vengeance.

                            No matter if regular vengeance is okay or not, the purpose of the ideal justice system should be rehabilitation, not retribution. Retribution based punishment came about because many old beliefs had the god(s) punish wrongdoers, and be a bit careless regarding collateral damage, if they weren't mundanely punished. I would be unsuprised if that's where the modern justice system got many of it's roots. Rehabilition of criminals, combined with a relatively light punishment, is almost always more effective than just a big punishment, because threat of punishment only scales in efficiency up to a certain level, while increased rehabilition also only scales to a certain point, but that point is decriminalization. So, alongside adults, the punishment of adolescents and below should be focused on rehabilitation. Life sentences are not conductive to rehabilitation.
                            I know what the original Hebrew saying is, and I was disagreeing with it. But I agree with most of the rest of what you say.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            How is a life sentence a reminder? It's not like they can learn from it if it's a life sentence.
                            I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                            Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                            But that day you know I left my money
                            And I thought of you only
                            All that copper glowing fine

                            Comment

                              #89
                              Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                              Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                              Not sure how 3 became the age of discussion but personally I do not think any three year old is old enough or mature enough to murder. That aside I do think that as a western society we have collectively reduced and lowered the maturing of our children. Say a five year old in a third world nation or pre-industrial nation is far more mature responsibility wise than most 5 year olds in the west. The idea of death is much different than what a 5 year old in the west who never does anything shows.
                              Because most people understand enough about child development to know that the capacity for understanding consequences, right and wrong, etc differ for different ages and stages of development. Also, while responsibilities and expectations, as well as the type of social interactions, differs between cultures, it does so within cultures (socioeconomically, rural vs urban, etc) as well, so that overall the developmental stages seem to be conserved. Since most people know that this is a fact of human development and behavior, the idea that all children (whether stated explicitly or implicitly) regardless of age should be punished the same as an adult, should seem ridiculous when applied to a typical pre-schooler or toddler.

                              It wasn't meant to be the point of this thread, but now it is...
                              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                                #90
                                Re: Juvenile offenders & life sentances

                                Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                                Not sure how 3 became the age of discussion but personally I do not think any three year old is old enough or mature enough to murder.
                                I don't either. Most states have laws on the age a kid can go from juvenile to adult court. A three year old would not qualify in almost any state. Most would not get life. Most would get treatment. Even if convicted you can't put minors with adults. They would go to a treatment facility for years first.

                                Comment

                                Previous 1 3 4 5 6 7 template Next
                                Working...
                                X