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Thread: Allowances

  1. #11
    Sr. Member Herbert's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    It's less about rewarding them for outstanding performance, and more about rewarding them for just showing up, because that boosts performance. It could also be based on attendance, really.

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    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    I think a modest allowance is a way of teaching them to budget for their smaller items, and not have to pester you every time they want some little thing. I used to get fifty cents a week when I was 10 years old.....back then, that bought wax lips, candy cigarettes, dill pickles, and stuff from the gumball machine, and that's what made my word go 'round.

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  3. #13
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert View Post
    It's less about rewarding them for outstanding performance, and more about rewarding them for just showing up, because that boosts performance. It could also be based on attendance, really.
    But showing up should be expected. You don't get rewarded just for showing up in life. That's the most basic life skill you can have.

  4. #14
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by DanieMarie View Post
    But showing up should be expected. You don't get rewarded just for showing up in life. That's the most basic life skill you can have.
    Sure we do. I have a job. I get paid to go to work. As long as I am minimally competent and do my job, I get paid the same as if I bust my ***. In fact, if I bust my ***, I get MORE work with higher expectations, because I'm now held to a higher standard with shorter deadlines. I don't get more money or promotions for more productivity, I just get more work. For me, that isn't a problem... I am incapable of doing anything half-***ed. I'm not terribly ambitious, nor am I a perfectionist, but I can't stand to not have anything to do and I don't like sloppy jobs. If you are going to do something, it should be done right and preferably the first time. I believe in taking responsibility for one's actions, including mistakes. Unless someone is doing piecework, getting paid by the pound, etc, what you actually do has nothing to do with what you actually make, as long as you show up on time and go through the motions. And this is true in most job sectors, whether its fast food or the military. Trust me--I worked at McDonalds in high school, and I never got paid more for being faster or more accurate or having better customer service--your raise was based on whether or not you were buddy buddy with the manager. Not much different from making rank in the military--as long as I scored well on a test and my chain of command liked me, I was golden.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

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  5. #15
    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    ^^^ Agree. I've literally been told "we don't pay you to think". Creativity/vision are a threat to the powers that be.

    Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

  6. #16
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    Sure we do. I have a job. I get paid to go to work. As long as I am minimally competent and do my job, I get paid the same as if I bust my ***. In fact, if I bust my ***, I get MORE work with higher expectations, because I'm now held to a higher standard with shorter deadlines. I don't get more money or promotions for more productivity, I just get more work. For me, that isn't a problem... I am incapable of doing anything half-***ed. I'm not terribly ambitious, nor am I a perfectionist, but I can't stand to not have anything to do and I don't like sloppy jobs. If you are going to do something, it should be done right and preferably the first time. I believe in taking responsibility for one's actions, including mistakes. Unless someone is doing piecework, getting paid by the pound, etc, what you actually do has nothing to do with what you actually make, as long as you show up on time and go through the motions. And this is true in most job sectors, whether its fast food or the military. Trust me--I worked at McDonalds in high school, and I never got paid more for being faster or more accurate or having better customer service--your raise was based on whether or not you were buddy buddy with the manager. Not much different from making rank in the military--as long as I scored well on a test and my chain of command liked me, I was golden.
    Although I suppose you're right, I still think that paying kids to go to school is problematic. "Showing up" isn't just a job thing, it's a life thing. There are all sorts of things you have to show up for that don't involve money, like college (which I guess involves money, if we mean PAYING money), clubs, church (if you go), family events, etc. School is one of those things that should be a given, in my opinion. I want my kids to go to school because they want to learn and want to build a future for themselves, not because I'm essentially bribing them to go. School is not a job.

  7. #17
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by DanieMarie View Post
    I want my kids to go to school because they want to learn and want to build a future for themselves, not because I'm essentially bribing them to go. School is not a job.
    I think most people want their kids to go to school because they want to learn and build a future for themselves. But if there is anything I've learned as a parent, its that 1) parenting only gets you so far in influencing your children and 2) school is not the Mecca of learning for all children.

    For some kids school IS a job (a job being work that you really just do because you have to). And lets be honest, you can learn anywhere. If anything, I'd say school kills the innate desire to learn in as many kids as it inspires...with most kids falling somewhere in the middle. I was a kid that was mostly great at school. My husband, not so much. One kid is good at school, the other not so much. Neither of my brothers are great at school, but one is better than the other when it comes to trying.

    I believe in the intrinsic reward of learning (as does the Hubby). I just don't think that school is the place that it is best expressed or fostered for all children. Nor do I think school success really translates to life success. Sure, a good education helps, but there are plenty of PhD candidates working at Starbucks...I make more money than the girl in the office next to me that has a master's degree (I have more actual experience). My dad has an associates degree and still became a partner in an engineering firm--because he had experience, a good work ethic, and the big boss liked him.

    If paying them to do a job they hate helps them get through the day, I'm a pragmatist (studies on paying kids for grades or to go to school are mixed, but actually seem to favor paying for attendance vs. paying for good grades/test scores, and tend to show gains when the programs are well designed, but are no panacea).
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  8. #18
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    I think most people want their kids to go to school because they want to learn and build a future for themselves. But if there is anything I've learned as a parent, its that 1) parenting only gets you so far in influencing your children and 2) school is not the Mecca of learning for all children.

    For some kids school IS a job (a job being work that you really just do because you have to). And lets be honest, you can learn anywhere. If anything, I'd say school kills the innate desire to learn in as many kids as it inspires...with most kids falling somewhere in the middle. I was a kid that was mostly great at school. My husband, not so much. One kid is good at school, the other not so much. Neither of my brothers are great at school, but one is better than the other when it comes to trying.

    I believe in the intrinsic reward of learning (as does the Hubby). I just don't think that school is the place that it is best expressed or fostered for all children. Nor do I think school success really translates to life success. Sure, a good education helps, but there are plenty of PhD candidates working at Starbucks...I make more money than the girl in the office next to me that has a master's degree (I have more actual experience). My dad has an associates degree and still became a partner in an engineering firm--because he had experience, a good work ethic, and the big boss liked him.

    If paying them to do a job they hate helps them get through the day, I'm a pragmatist (studies on paying kids for grades or to go to school are mixed, but actually seem to favor paying for attendance vs. paying for good grades/test scores, and tend to show gains when the programs are well designed, but are no panacea).
    I don't totally disagree with you. I just really dislike the idea of using money as an incentive to go to school. I'd rather somehow tie it to some other kind of success, like getting to do something they really want to do as a reward, or having a great year-end party to celebrate exam results, or something like that. I guess I'll have to see how things go when I actually have kids, though. I think part of the reason I'm so against it is because my parents were, and they told us about it a lot (we asked them a few times because some of our friends got money for passing tests and good report cards and stuff). That being said, they were HUGE on punishments for not doing well in school. I never got punished because I always had great grades and always tried, but my brother got grounded, had his computer taken away, got his TV privileges revoked, etc. It wasn't really about his grades...it was that he didn't really try.

  9. #19
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    I know a couple of kids I'd pay not to go to school.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I gave my kids an allowance because they needed money, and it was better to have a set sum than it was to dole out bits at a time.

    I did not pay them for doing chores.

    They were my kids, not my employees.

    The allowance they got was for simply existing in the family, and they got it whether they did their work or not.

    The chores were just a part of being in a family, and if they didn't do them, it was a problem for the whole family, because then other people had to do them, and they weren't happy about it.
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  10. #20
    Moderator Azvanna's Avatar
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    Re: Allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
    ^^^ Agree. I've literally been told "we don't pay you to think". Creativity/vision are a threat to the powers that be.
    Me too!!

    As for an allowance, I never had one but I never wanted for anything. However, I would have appreciated the learning skill that comes along with managing an income. So, maybe EJ will get a very small allowance one day. My first idea was to wait til he had an income from a job and then teach budgeting, but I think if he's earning his own money for the first time, he may not want to listen to me then. So maybe I could start early.

    I liked your idea, Thalassa, of teaching resource management to your children particularly that example you gave a little while ago of giving your children only so much water to water the plants. I wonder how budgeting could be taught in a similar way.

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