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    Are we taken seriously?


    Are pagans like those people in the picture? Do we have certain credibility issues?
    What should we do about it? (Or should we just not care?)

    (Just in case because this is the internet: the 'we' refers to everyone on PF or, if you want to read it as such, pagans. My intention was not to exclude anyone. )
    baah.

    #2
    Re: Are we taken seriously?

    I am not really sure why they would care(The Pagans) no attention,no strife.(better like the old ways,secret and hidden)
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    sigpic

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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      #3
      Re: Are we taken seriously?

      Characatures are always funny, but not meant to be taken as more than a fun poke.

      Anybody can be laughed at. It is best to laugh at one's self first, before someone else does it for you
      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        #4
        Re: Are we taken seriously?

        Okay, I'll admit it, I have never knowingly met any pagans in person that were ambassadors for the faith if you will. And I'm not talking about active proselytizing or anything ... I'm talking about living a capable, responsible adult life and having your stuff together enough to inspire other people that you're worth taking seriously as a spiritually aware person.

        All the pagans I ever met were bums and druggies who used paganism to justify a dissolute lifestyle. And sure they acted like they had a lot of interest in their "religion" but most of what they had to say just came across as pretension to profundity without any real meaning.

        So I thought they were poseurs and I laughed at them for years and let them color my view towards paganism in general.

        But I read something a year or two ago that cracked through my prejudice and made me interested in learning more. Can't even remember what it was, but it did the trick, and it also allowed me to admit to myself that I could take an interest in paganism without being a silly twit too.

        I was wrong, and I judged people unfairly for it. Not specific people, as I honestly didn't know any who didn't fit my stereotype, but I generalized wrongly. I don't think I owe anyone an apology as my private thoughts affected no one but me, but it's only fair that I own my prejudice now to someone.

        OTOH, the people that gave me this impression all really do claim paganism and no, they don't do anything to make it appear like a serious spiritual path. So, I guess that is just the drawback of being a fairly unstructured, open and accepting faith. You have to accept that there are going to be more clowns in a group like that than in a more controlling religious group.

        It's funny, there was a thread recently here about whether people tell their families and friends about their paganism, and a number of people admitted to using a heavy dose of discretion, particularly with Christians. I'm the opposite! I'd rather be discrete to avoid other pagans! At least until I know them well enough to know that they take they prioritize spirituality at least as much as I do.


        And again, on the admitting I am wrong path, as soon as I opened my mind more, of course the universe sent me towards people who I learned to respect who happened to be pagan. And then I found a great little message board too ...

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          #5
          Re: Are we taken seriously?

          Sometimes the quietest voices speak louder than those that yell, though the deaf will never hear them.

          One of life's little absurdities.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #6
            Re: Are we taken seriously?

            I enjoyed reading that, TxanGoddess.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Are we taken seriously?

              Honestly, no, I'm not taken seriously, and I kind of don't care. It's amazing how efficient it is to shut someone up by responding "I understand that's what you believe, and I'm happy you found your spiritual path".
              Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

              Honorary Nord.

              Habbalah Vlogs

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                #8
                Re: Are we taken seriously?

                I actually agree a lot with that pic (and don't ever let me get started about thw graphic design of pagan book covers!).
                That was something that kept me from paganism many years. I kind of flirted with it but hey, I had been the 'crazy wolf kid' when I was 12-14 and taking up a spiritual path that would "require" such behaviour (you know, all Pagans go by names likw DarkWolfMoonShadow and listen to metal music so much that they've made a religion out of it) was a bit off-putting. Plus I wanted some "serious spiritual discipline".
                I guess this is something many pagans face sooner or later. Personally I still waver between to call or not to call myself Pagan (which I do irl, but only in a context where it means "non-Christian" or "heretic".) I kind of wish to see more "ordinary" people being openly Pagan but as TxanGoddess beautifully, were are an open and accepting faith so there is variety. And who am I to say, I'm quite a freak myself so it's also a conscious choice not to be openly Pagan. I don't want to reinforce the stereotype. (And I can be classified as the type of Pagan TxanGoddess talked about, seemingly interested in religiom but it lacks meaning. That is the side of me that I actually show to some people so no one can ask me tricky questions about my path when they know I'm not that serious.) But still I do wish to see also the "ordinary" kind of variety in Paganism. People who are Pagans for the sake it, not for an identity boost or some kind of 24/7 fantasy larp. People who just "happen to be Pagan". I know they exist and I understand why do they choose not to be so vocal about their path. I think the problem doesm't lie there whether or not we are taking seriously but we could use a bit more down to earth PR sometimes...
                baah.

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                  #9
                  Re: Are we taken seriously?

                  I am personally taken seriously. My beliefs? People are always shocked and completely uninformed. If you are a friend I will gladly explain a brief synopsis of my philosophy. They usually laugh at first knowledge. Then they are like, sooooo where can I read more about this?

                  If you are not a friend and I just don't curr..I usually just say I worship the dark lord and hiss a lot.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #10
                    Re: Are we taken seriously?

                    Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                    I am personally taken seriously. My beliefs? People are always shocked and completely uninformed. If you are a friend I will gladly explain a brief synopsis of my philosophy. They usually laugh at first knowledge. Then they are like, sooooo where can I read more about this?

                    If you are not a friend and I just don't curr..I usually just say I worship the dark lord and hiss a lot.
                    funny-pictures-doom-comes-in-fun-si.jpg

                    Like this!
                    Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

                    Honorary Nord.

                    Habbalah Vlogs

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                      #11
                      Re: Are we taken seriously?

                      I try not to judge, and try hard to practice an "each to their own" attitude, and so on... after all, not every Pagan goes about all day every day in broad daylight looking like Hollywoods' image of a witch... as we all know, it could be the local Postman, or the lady jogging around the park in her pink tracksuit... who knows?

                      however, I have felt a certain level of being... uncomfy... in a crowd of Pagans all trying to be more Pagan than everyone else and trying so hard to "out do" each other, if you know what I mean, unless it's Samhain, maybe... or a Pagan Pride march... especially the one chap this one time who claimed to be "the real" Odin, done up in Norse dress who kept saying he was talking to the Ice Giants, or the one claiming to be "the real" Merlin in the peacock blue velvet pointy hat and matching robe that had fetching gold lurex stars on... It was the funny voice impressions too with that one that made me find it hard not to laugh...

                      I have heard non-Pagans poke fun at cloak wearing Pagans at Avebury, calling them all Devil worshippers and child eaters etc I was pretty upset by that and told them not to be so unkind and to brush up on their facts before making such rude and offensive comments...

                      I blame the press for a lot of it... they do like to publish trash about us with pictures made to look overly dramatic especially as 31st October draws close.

                      I guess we all have a certain level of responsibility for how non-Pagans view us when we are out and about in the world at large, depends on the circumstances really and it's not just about costume, it's about behaviour and conduct too.

                      Quite a different matter if they accidentally stumble across a ritual going on in the woods or at the beach and so on, of course, especially if said ritual happens to be skyclad... that can be so embarrassing for all concerned (yes it has happened to me)

                      I have to say I think a group of people dressed like the ones in the picture would give Pagans something of a "bad name" in truth because, sadly, there are so many nasty folks ready to laugh at something they don't understand and maybe fear, or feel jealous about. They do look like extra's from the set of Harry Potter. (If that's not an insult to Harry Potter films.)

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                        #12
                        Re: Are we taken seriously?

                        It is rather uncommon for my beliefs to be given the same status by others that I give it myself. Considering that I don't really give Christianity much status (no offense intended to christian members), I can't really assign blame.

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                          #13
                          Re: Are we taken seriously?

                          If we're supposed to take Christians seriously....


                          (That was mean but I couldn't resist, sorry anyone who is offended by that)
                          A Happy Little Wiccan:^^:

                          Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

                          Because who needs a life when you have a chatroom.

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                            #14
                            Re: Are we taken seriously?

                            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                            I am personally taken seriously.
                            Mostly this except when I don't want to be taken seriously. My beliefs aren't typically available for public critique and review so no one really expresses an opinion on them and I'm happy that way.

                            Originally posted by Herbert View Post
                            (no offense intended to christian members),
                            Originally posted by Serria View Post
                            (That was mean but I couldn't resist, sorry anyone who is offended by that)
                            We're going to have this discussion now while you two aren't actually guilty of anything offensive enough to warrant staff action and before anyone decides to follow the example of making disclaimers on their statements. If you feel the need to add apologies for the statement you are making when you are making it or feel the need to say "no offence intended" then think very, very carefully whether or not the statement needs to be made. My personal interpretation of "No offence"/"Sorry, but"/add-in-your-preferred-disclaimer-here is that the person using these disclaimers generally (there are rare exceptions) knows or strongly believes that their conduct is at the very least questionable and often flat-out wrong but they aren't bothered by the offence they're about to give, they just don't want retaliation from the party they're offending. What this means for board members is that if I find your comment out of line then instead of the disclaimer being a mitigating factor in your defence, it becomes a sign of malicious intent and when I come down on you for whatever your initial offence is, I will be just that little extra bit more pissed off than usual. If you don't want to be offensive, than don't be offensive. If you feel that being offensive is warranted then don't pretend that you don't know what you're doing. Say what needs to be said, grit your teeth and take whatever comes back at you.

                            Now, as stated at the beginning of my little rant. The comments that you added disclaimers to don't currently merit official sanction so go about your business.
                            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Are we taken seriously?

                              Originally posted by TxanGoddess View Post
                              So, I guess that is just the drawback of being a fairly unstructured, open and accepting faith. You have to accept that there are going to be more clowns in a group like that than in a more controlling religious group.
                              Yes, we get a lot of that in Buddhism too.
                              Once a man, like the sea I raged;
                              Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
                              And there is in fact more earth than sea.
                              Genesis lyric

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