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    The three centres of Paganism

    Please have a look at this blog and let me know whether you think it's an accurate overview of Paganism. And if not, why not?
    The three centres discussed are self-centred, earth-centred and deity-centred. From what I've learned so far it seems to make sense, but what do you think?

    This post is part 2 of a 3-part series.  In the first part, I discussed how I had come to realize the ego-centrism of my earlier view of the Pagan
    Once a man, like the sea I raged;
    Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
    And there is in fact more earth than sea.
    Genesis lyric

    #2
    Re: The three centres of Paganism

    I'd add universe centered.
    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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      #3
      Re: The three centres of Paganism

      Originally posted by Gleb View Post
      I'd add universe centered.
      So would "nature-centred" cover that too?
      Once a man, like the sea I raged;
      Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
      And there is in fact more earth than sea.
      Genesis lyric

      Comment


        #4
        Re: The three centres of Paganism

        Probably so, universe centred is a larger aspect of nature centred. After all every planet has a different "kind" of nature, different compounds, et cetera.

        - - - Updated - - -

        I'd add universe centered.
        "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



        Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

        Comment


          #5
          Re: The three centres of Paganism

          I think nature centered includes universe centered...its just that most people have an earth focus.


          Fyi: they've (the various patheps bloggers participating in this,as,a,back and forth) since added a 4th center. Although I'd pwrsonally have combined self centric (sounds better,than self centered) and community centered into "humanity centered" or "people centered"
          Last edited by thalassa; 12 Dec 2015, 02:53.
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
          sigpic

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            #6
            Re: The three centres of Paganism

            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
            I think nature centered includes universe centered...its just that most people have an earth focus.
            Yes, that makes sense. I think I prefer "nature-centred" which is more inclusive. I do work imaginatively with the universe, but practically speaking it's mostly about the natural world on this planet.
            Once a man, like the sea I raged;
            Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
            And there is in fact more earth than sea.
            Genesis lyric

            Comment


              #7
              Re: The three centres of Paganism

              I'd say it's pretty fair.

              Of course, ignoring the Classicists (caught between their love of Greek art and their rejection of Greek religion, and hence trying to avoid getting to grips with the latter), the pagans of the Ancient world were deity-centered. As are the pagans of Africa and the diaspora, China, and Japan. The other two types are confined to neopaganism.


              I'd say those two types developed in neopaganism because this grew out of magic and the Anglosaxon obsession with nature in reaction to the industrial revolution. Just as a symbolic Satanism preceded Theistic Satanism, so a symbolic paganism preceded the religious one: see writings by Kipling, Saki, etc, and the image of Pan in 19th century literature. The druids only became pagan recently (and many still aren't), while Gardner's original book of shadows was called the "Book of Art Magical". He was a ceremonial magician and nature lover for years before he created Wicca.

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                #8
                Re: The three centres of Paganism

                I don't think its horribly inaccurate. I fit in all three of those categories.

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                  #9
                  Re: The three centres of Paganism

                  Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post
                  I'd say those two types developed in neopaganism because this grew out of magic and the Anglosaxon obsession with nature in reaction to the industrial revolution. Just as a symbolic Satanism preceded Theistic Satanism, so a symbolic paganism preceded the religious one: see writings by Kipling, Saki, etc, and the image of Pan in 19th century literature. The druids only became pagan recently (and many still aren't), while Gardner's original book of shadows was called the "Book of Art Magical". He was a ceremonial magician and nature lover for years before he created Wicca.
                  So is neo-paganism basically a modern invention, or does it have any historical basis?
                  Once a man, like the sea I raged;
                  Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
                  And there is in fact more earth than sea.
                  Genesis lyric

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: The three centres of Paganism

                    Originally posted by Porpoise View Post
                    So is neo-paganism basically a modern invention, or does it have any historical basis?
                    Outside of meditative experience, time is linear. Nothing of human life today isn't rooted in human history in some way or other. We have about 5000 years, give or take, of written evidence of past events, and past ideas. It's a sketchy record, incomplete, biased, sometimes weighted by intentionally misleading information... With all that in mind, little to nothing in modern Pagan thought and practice is cut fresh from whole cloth. Some of the threads that run between our deeper histories and modern ideas and practices are sketchy, rather thin on both ends as it were, and so people today naturally flesh them out how they may, to render something workable.

                    It's reasonable to understand modern Paganism as a response to more prominent spiritual conventions that have been found to be wanting by modern sensibilities, for many reasons. An unsatisfied spirit naturally seeks.

                    I think the article linked to the thread does a pretty good job of classifying some of the larger themes to result from that kind of seeking over the past 100 years or so. And with that in mind, a hundred years is enough to claim its own history, I would say.

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                      #11
                      Re: The three centres of Paganism

                      Originally posted by Porpoise View Post
                      So is neo-paganism basically a modern invention, or does it have any historical basis?
                      Well, no-one has succeeded in proving that Wicca existed before the 20th century. Gardner, when asked where he'd been initiated, said in a coven in the New Forest - and gave as the name of the priestess that of a deceased woman who'd been a pillar of the Anglican church! He did have a sense of humour. The contents of his Book of Art Magical mostly come from recent sources, such as the writings of Crowley.

                      Obviously many of the early Wiccans came from a magical background. There was always a lot of magic going on in England, but it's practitioners would attend the local church. It's like modern Greece, where you get farmers who attend church but make offerings to the nymphs (very quietly, of course!)

                      As for the religious beliefs of neopagans, they aren't too difficult to trace. Gardner's belief in an impersonal deity manifesting as a god and goddess came from some sects of Hinduism, via Theosophy and Dion Fortune's teachings about what she called Polarity. The name of the God comes from Murray and that of the Goddess from Leland.

                      The "soft polytheist" views of many, that treats all divinities as archetypes, was never held by Gardner. I suspect that he'd have agreed with me that there's more sound evidence for gods than for Jung's archetypes!

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                        #12
                        Re: The three centres of Paganism

                        Originally posted by R. Eugene Laughlin View Post
                        It's reasonable to understand modern Paganism as a response to more prominent spiritual conventions that have been found to be wanting by modern sensibilities, for many reasons. An unsatisfied spirit naturally seeks.
                        I suspect that dissatisfaction also explains the modern western interest in Eastern traditions like Buddhism.

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post
                        Obviously many of the early Wiccans came from a magical background. There was always a lot of magic going on in England, but it's practitioners would attend the local church. It's like modern Greece, where you get farmers who attend church but make offerings to the nymphs (very quietly, of course!)
                        Do you know the roots of that that interest in magic? Presumably it preceded the arrival of Christianity?
                        Once a man, like the sea I raged;
                        Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
                        And there is in fact more earth than sea.
                        Genesis lyric

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: The three centres of Paganism

                          Where the gods of Bronze age Britain then, if all ancient paganism was deity centred? Not a single idol has been found to precede the Iron Age, as far as I'm aware the Venus found in Grimes Graves was fraudulent, having been conveniently discovered after the lead of the dig dismissed all the experts for the day. Convenient indeed.
                          I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                          Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                          But that day you know I left my money
                          And I thought of you only
                          All that copper glowing fine

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                            #14
                            Re: The three centres of Paganism

                            Originally posted by Briton View Post
                            Where the gods of Bronze age Britain then, if all ancient paganism was deity centred?.
                            There are a number of indigenous animist religions that are not deity-centered either.

                            I think some of this is a misunderstanding on what is actually being meant by ____-centerd (honestly, I think some of this is a result of what we think when we here the word "centered" in general) (also, I think that reading the entire set of blog exchanges helps this). Really, this is supposed to be an identification of where one's individual practices and beliefs are grounded at...not a way to define an entire practice. Ancestor veneration is community centered (or people-centered if you'd prefer to combine it with self-centric), offering to landwights is nature-centered, traditional deity worship is deity-centered, personal chakra work is self-centric, a healing spell for a friend that calls on Ascelpus is deity centered AND community centered, etc.
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: The three centres of Paganism

                              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                              Really, this is supposed to be an identification of where one's individual practices and beliefs are grounded at...not a way to define an entire practice.
                              Yes, that's how I understood the blog, themes and inclinations.
                              Once a man, like the sea I raged;
                              Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
                              And there is in fact more earth than sea.
                              Genesis lyric

                              Comment

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