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  • Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

    What do you think?
    Once a man, like the sea I raged;
    Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
    And there is in fact more earth than sea.
    Genesis lyric

  • #2
    Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

    For pagans, in general? No. The word is too broad...

    In specific pagan types? Maybe. But the first problem is what, exactly (or even generally), is a "soul"?
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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    • #3
      Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

      At times I think of the "golden thread" of life.

      Sauce


      Definition of thread of life

      : the course of individual existence especially as fabled in ancient times to be spun and cut by the Fates
      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




      sigpic

      my new page here,let me know what you think.


      nothing but the shadow of what was

      witchvox
      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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      • #4
        Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

        Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
        In specific pagan types? Maybe. But the first problem is what, exactly (or even generally), is a "soul"?
        Broadly I take soul or spirit to refer to something above, beyond or beneath everyday experience - people often talk about "body, mind and spirit" for example.
        Once a man, like the sea I raged;
        Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
        And there is in fact more earth than sea.
        Genesis lyric

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

          I also wonder at what we are,Just flesh and bone,with a guiding mental computer kind of,or connected to something much more profound. The idea of what comes after we die is connected to the concept of a spirit or soul. The idea we are just decomposed bits of the over all energy of existence?
          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




          sigpic

          my new page here,let me know what you think.


          nothing but the shadow of what was

          witchvox
          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

            Originally posted by Spiny Norman View Post
            Broadly I take soul or spirit to refer to something above, beyond or beneath everyday experience - people often talk about "body, mind and spirit" for example.
            In Alchemy, "spirit" and "soul" are two different things, neither one of which matches your definition. Both are obvious parts of "every day existance."

            No "belief" is required of either because, simply, they are each specific terms for things which have obvious, observable, and experiential existence. To disbelieve in either would be like disbelieving in the sun or moon (which, incidentally, symbolize spirit and soul, respectively).
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
              I also wonder at what we are,Just flesh and bone,with a guiding mental computer kind of,or connected to something much more profound. The idea of what comes after we die is connected to the concept of a spirit or soul. The idea we are just decomposed bits of the over all energy of existence?
              Yes, these questions are intimately connected to our ideas about life and death. I suppose another way of asking the OP question would be "Is materialism compatible with Paganism?"

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
              In Alchemy, "spirit" and "soul" are two different things, neither one of which matches your definition. Both are obvious parts of "every day existance."
              OK, so could you briefly define them from your point of view and explain how they are obvious parts of everyday existence?
              Last edited by Spiny Norman; 14 Jan 2016, 04:42.
              Once a man, like the sea I raged;
              Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
              And there is in fact more earth than sea.
              Genesis lyric

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                In brief:

                Spirit = The part of a thing that feels, or that causes others to feel about it.

                Soul = The part of a thing that thinks, or causes others to have thoughts about it.

                If you feel or have feeling about something, or think or have thoughts about something you are directly interacting with spirit or soul. I'm not going to identify how you do it , I'm just gonna assume you do.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  Spirit = The part of a thing that feels, or that causes others to feel about it.
                  Soul = The part of a thing that thinks, or causes others to have thoughts about it.
                  If you feel or have feeling about something, or think or have thoughts about something you are directly interacting with spirit or soul. I'm not going to identify how you do it , I'm just gonna assume you do.
                  Sorry but I don't get this. If I have a thought or a feeling, isn't that just a thought or a feeling? The functions of intellect and emotion, stuff going on in my mind?
                  Once a man, like the sea I raged;
                  Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
                  And there is in fact more earth than sea.
                  Genesis lyric

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                    Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                    In brief:

                    Spirit = The part of a thing that feels, or that causes others to feel about it.

                    Soul = The part of a thing that thinks, or causes others to have thoughts about it.

                    If you feel or have feeling about something, or think or have thoughts about something you are directly interacting with spirit or soul. I'm not going to identify how you do it , I'm just gonna assume you do.
                    The bold would imply that non-living objects have both elements. Is that accurate?
                    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
                    ―Thon

                    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

                    Yoda

                    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                    • #11
                      Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                      Have to admit I sort of see them in a manner similar to the ancient Egyptians.

                      The Spirit is the the energy body or double that resides within the fleshy body. It holds the form / shape of the physical body but is not unique to humans. Perhaps what one might equate to the primordial or animal self.

                      The Soul is the higher self or mental energy that records the life of the entity. It's also the part I think that gets reborn or connects one to the gods / goddesses / divinity. It is the part affected / effect by the notion of born again is what is actually what goes to reside with the gods / goddess / God as it where.
                      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                        The bold would imply that non-living objects have both elements. Is that accurate?
                        Yes - I am on my computer. I think about my computer, and I enjoy using it to communicate with people (and for other stuff), so I have imbued my computer it both a spirit and a soul. Everything I am aware of has both a spirit and a soul. The more I think or feel about it, the stronger the spirit or soul is.

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Originally posted by Spiny Norman View Post
                        Sorry but I don't get this. If I have a thought or a feeling, isn't that just a thought or a feeling? The functions of intellect and emotion, stuff going on in my mind?
                        Your mind is body. Body contains both soul and spirit.
                        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                          A few thoughts.

                          "Is materialism compatible with Paganism?" When ordinary people talk about Paganism, they're talking about a religion, and when they talk about religion, they're talking about gods. In languages which don't have a word like the English "religion", sentences where we'd use it refer to gods instead. In Chinese you don't ask what some-ones religion is, but what they worship. In Ancient Greek, the equivalent to "religion" is theon therapeia "service of the gods". So, if you are a materialist and say you're a pagan, you are redefining the words "pagan" and "religion". Messing with the language muddies the waters of discussion and requires considerable justification.

                          Is soul distinct from mind? Belief in a single mind/soul is generally spread by Christianity, which got it from late Greek philosophy. Traditionally, most people have believed in at least two souls. The idea seems to be due to out-of-the-body experiences. If your soul is off somewhere else, what's keeping your body alive? So we have the "free soul" and the "body soul". After death, the free soul does whatever free souls do, while the body soul disperses unless it becomes a ghost. The pagan Anglo-Saxons made the distinction: gast was the free soul, sawol the body one. In Egyptian you had the bai and the koi. The Inuit have the iḷitqusiq and the iñuusiq.

                          Some make further distinctions. Our emotions and desires are not under our control: you can decide to think of a unicorn with certainty of success, but you can't decide to be happy. The Greeks accordingly distinguished between nous "mind" and thymos "desire, emotion". Similarly, part of our character is physically based. That would be Jung's persona, as distinct from the ego. The Inuit iḷitqusiq would be ego, while the persona comes close to their atiq.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                            That is an interesting explanation,could you provide links for the various aspects for further exploring?
                            My copy of the "Golden Bough" might go into this,but I have not read in a while,my eyesight being less than it used to be.
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                            sigpic

                            my new page here,let me know what you think.


                            nothing but the shadow of what was

                            witchvox
                            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is the belief in a soul or spirit compulsory for Pagans?

                              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                              Yes - I am on my computer. I think about my computer, and I enjoy using it to communicate with people (and for other stuff), so I have imbued my computer it both a spirit and a soul.

                              You say "imbued", so you mean this is a belief you have?
                              Once a man, like the sea I raged;
                              Once a woman, like the earth I gave;
                              And there is in fact more earth than sea.
                              Genesis lyric

                              Comment

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