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Thread: Purity Ball

  1. #11
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    Re: Purity Ball

    I'm (almost) speechless. Wikipedia tells me that it was invented by Randy Wilson, which is rather nice, given the meaning of "randy" in British slang!

  2. #12
    Bronze Member Bartmanhomer's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    I didn't realized that a purity ball would be that creepy. :O

  3. #13
    Head Above Water habbalah's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    So it's actually a father-daughter dance. The reason why I asked this question because I was watching a recent episode of Law and Order: SVU. And in that episode there was this dance between a father and daughter. So I wasn't so sure what's the purpose of a Purity Ball. So I've to ask this question.
    It's not just a dance. Besides that, the girl wears a "purity ring" that's a vow that she'll stay a virgin until marriage, because her virginity basically belongs to her father. I find the entire practice creepy and not a small bit incestuous.
    “You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.” -- Bruce Lee

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  4. #14
    Member Eofor's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by habbalah View Post
    her virginity basically belongs to her father
    Now this is disturbing.

  5. #15
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    Daughter-father dances are cute. Purity balls are creepy. Nuance, context, and purpose is important.

    Also, when I've seed daughter -father dances, its usually for preteen or younger girls...a way to dress up and pretend to be fancy. Not some creepy faux marriage.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  6. #16
    Head Above Water habbalah's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    Daughter-father dances are cute. Purity balls are creepy. Nuance, context, and purpose is important.

    Also, when I've seed daughter -father dances, its usually for preteen or younger girls...a way to dress up and pretend to be fancy. Not some creepy faux marriage.
    A friend of mine had a purity ball as a young teen, so she explained the whole thing to me. So creepy.
    “You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.” -- Bruce Lee

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  7. #17
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    I enjoyed dancing with my daughter at her wedding.

    I know - I "own her" and was giving her away, so that's bad.

    Or, maybe, I was celebrating her happiness in finding and establishing a new family, and appreciating the continuance of the family values we enjoyed as a family.

    When family matters turn into political decisions, things have already gone down the crapper.

    As Master Lao said:

    "when the Tao us lost, there is goodness.
    When the goodness is lost, there is morality.
    When morality is lost, there is ritual.
    Ritual is the husk of true faith,
    The beginning of chaos."
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  8. #18
    Head Above Water habbalah's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    That's not the same thing as a purity ball. Purity balls are to pledge virginity until marriage to the father. It's not the dancing at all that bothers me.
    “You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.” -- Bruce Lee

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  9. #19
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    I enjoyed dancing with my daughter at her wedding.

    I know - I "own her" and was giving her away, so that's bad.

    Or, maybe, I was celebrating her happiness in finding and establishing a new family, and appreciating the continuance of the family values we enjoyed as a family.The beginning of chaos."
    Its not about a daughter dancing with her dad (or mother her son)...maybe its a southern/church thing (they still do cotillion here too), but civic groups will hold prom/homecoming dances for fathers and daughters--usually aimed at an age group where the kids aren't dating age yet, or around Father's Day. There's also an idea of the (perhaps poorly named) father-daughter date--a father takes his daughter out using all the good manners that he would hope a boy would have for her when she gets to that age.

    The pledge:
    For Fathers:
    I (Daughter’s Name)’s Father, choose before to God to war for my daughter’s purity. I acknowledge myself as the authority and protector of my daughter’s virginity, and pledge to be a man of integrity as I lead, guide, and pray over my daughter and her virginity – as the High Priest of my home.


    For Virgins:
    I (Name) pledge my purity to my father, my future/husband and my Creator. I recognize that virginity is my most precious gift to offer to my future husband. I will not engage in sexual activity of any kind before marriage but will keep my thought and my body pure as a very special present for the one I marry.


    For Secondary Virgins (those who have engaged in promiscuous behavior) and wish to recommit themselves to lives of purity):

    I (Name) re–pledge my purity to my father, my future/husband and my Creator. I now recognize that virginity is my most precious gift to offer my future husband. I deeply regret and will never again engage in sexual activity of any kind before marriage but will keep my thought and my body pure as a very special present for the one I marry.

    source
    Purity Balls are not just a dance (whether we are talking about dancing or an event). It's a fancy dance and a religious ceremony where daughters pledge their virginity (and sometimes also their chastity--which are not entirely the same thing) to god and their fathers and their fathers pledging to uphold their purity. There is generally an exchange of gift-symbols---the daughter gives a gold key (representing...well, that should be obvious) to her father who gives her some sort of jewelry (sometimes a necklace or bracelet, or more often a purity ring)...there is also the offering of a white rose as a symbol of the vow to god, that the girls lay down at a cross in some of them.

    The problem of Purity Balls is that they are emblematic of the problem of purity, period. It's like the Snow White apple---it looks like the perfect apple on the outside, but when you actually bite down on it, it's something completely different. The words don't sound bad at all--I'd agree, sex should be intentional, relationships should be about respect, one should love themselves and not seek validation from relationships/sex---but because those things aren't healthy, not because they are inherently sinful and something to be shamed for. Fathers and daughters SHOULD spend time together and have a healthy relationship.



    I'm going to borrow someone else's words for my criticism of this, because (IMO) its pretty much spot on:

    Why not teach girls other ways to be validated? Why not teach girls to value their skills and abilities and dreams, rather than to equate their worth with their bodies or beauty? Why not teach girls that they are internally valuable, and that what males around them think of them is completely irrelevant to that?


    Instead, the father / daughter purity culture feeds the idea that girls are only valuable inasmuch as they are valued in the eyes of the men around them, be that their boyfriends or their fathers. It teaches girls that their value lies in their bodies and in their relationship to men. It tells girls that it is healthy to pin your source of validation to male affirmation, but that that affirmation should come from their fathers rather than from boyfriends.


    I talked last week about how Vision Forum pinpoints real problems with society but fixes them by simply strengthening the root cause of the problems. There is a similar phenomenon going on in the case of purity balls. Randy and others like him are responding to a very real problem in society today: teenage girls who tie their self worth to their latest boyfriend, have irresponsible sex simply to feel valuable and loved, and have no real confidence in themselves. The reality is that there are plenty of teenage girls who are dating around and having irresponsible sex as a way to feel loved and valued and worthwhile.


    But, like Vision Forum, the father / daughter purity culture completely misses the mark with its solution. It fixes the problem by replacing the boyfriend with the father rather than by teaching girls that they are valuable for who they are, not who they are with or what they do with their bodies. Rather than tackling the root of the problem, the purity culture simply feeds it.

    (snip)

    It is not healthy for any female, be she a young girl or a full grown woman, to tie her self worth to what the men in her life think about her. This is the root of the problem here, not sex, not dating, not boys. But somehow, the purity culture cannot see that it plays into the very problem it seeks to combat. And this breaks my heart.


    Of course, the replacing of the boyfriend / girlfriend relationship with the father / daughter relationship is only one piece of this putrid puzzle. There’s also the reality that the purity culture’s solution to high STD and teen pregnancy rates is not to teach teens to exercise their sexuality responsibly but rather to do away with it altogether. As I watched the documentary at the top of this page, the different men over and over again talked of the problems of STDs and teen pregnancy, to the point that I wondered if even they knew about the existence of birth control and condoms. It’s like banning teens from driving because of the large percentage of teens who get in accidents rather than simply improving driver’s education.
    If you watch the documentary, I think the most telling comment is the idea that dating, etc, is "giving little pieces of your heart away" in such a way that it means you are less of a person for whomever you decide to marry.
    Last edited by thalassa; 30 Jan 2016 at 04:47.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  10. #20
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: Purity Ball

    Ye gods! I'm glad I'm not young again if this is the way things are going! I never danced with my father - ever. Nor with any of my uncles. Nor my brothers (and yes in case you were wondering, I really loved dancing.) The thought of pledging virginity to any male is just revolting IMHO - and the reason, as far as I'm concerned is that the whole question of virginity is grossly overrated.

    It's a bit like saying, 'I'm special cos I never had measles.'
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    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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