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    Your religious books

    Christians have the Bible, Islam the Qur'an, Judaism has the Torah etc etc.
    Many look to these books as THE WORD because it's old, it's consistently (for the most part) the same story through time, and it's popular. This sorta makes it 'true' in the mind of the believer. I'm guessing.

    Questions:
    1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?

    2 What makes it true for you?

    3 Do you think these other books are true? *and don't weasel out with 'well it's true for the believer' kind of answers. This isn't some political debate where you have to make sure you don't say the wrong thing to the crowd. Screw the crowd. Be real honest!
    Satan is my spirit animal

    #2
    Re: Your religious books

    Originally posted by Medusa View Post
    Christians have the Bible, Islam the Qur'an, Judaism has the Torah etc etc.
    Many look to these books as THE WORD because it's old, it's consistently (for the most part) the same story through time, and it's popular. This sorta makes it 'true' in the mind of the believer. I'm guessing.

    Questions:
    1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?

    Nope.

    Although, I do have a Bible (several actually) and a Qur'an, and a interpretation of the Vedas, the Tao te Ching, the Popul Vuh, a translation of the Homeric and Orphic Hymns, a translation and assessment of the Eddas, the Mabingonion, and a couple dozen books of mythology. Also, the Book of Mormon, and I used to have the JW book, and Diatenetics (can't spell it--the Scientology book) but someone stole those.

    What can I say, I like to read.



    2 What makes it true for you?

    3 Do you think these other books are true? *and don't weasel out with 'well it's true for the believer' kind of answers. This isn't some political debate where you have to make sure you don't say the wrong thing to the crowd. Screw the crowd. Be real honest!


    Yes and no. And this isn't weaseling...

    Truth is subjective. It is a purely human concept of the individual conception of how one perceives "fact", and it is limited by what can experience through varied senses and can reason out through varied levels of knowledge, a capacity for reasoning, and the experiences of the senses. Truth fof a blind person is not the same as truth for a deaf person is not the same as truth for a person with no legs is not the same as truth for a person that has never read a book is not the same as truth for a person born in a 3rd world country in a shack without electricity is not the same as truth for a trust-fund baby going to Harvard.

    Is is factual? Absolutely not. Were they written by people that were outright lying to perpetuate a fraud upon history and people in general? Mostly, I think no (though I have my doubts about Scientology and LDS). Are they an honest reflection of what a person or persons thought to be an accurate interpretation of experiences (either their own, or those passed on to them), tinged by the social conventions of their time and place? Absolutely.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #3
      Re: Your religious books

      I like the religious books that delve into philosophy,and the roots of morality. The act of trancing and connecting to nature and the edge of reality.
      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
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      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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        #4
        Re: Your religious books

        I don't have a definitive book. I've read the Latin Vulgate bible, the King James bible, etc., and what strikes me there is how some dude comes along once in a while and claims to know what something REALLY means, and starts a whole new subgroup. Like Wesley, Luther, Smith, and L. Ron Hubbard. They collect money from people who believe them.

        I've learned and absorbed more about ethics, morality, etc. from the Chronicles of Narnia and Star Trek than I ever did from any so-called religious leaders who re-interpret ancient scriptures. (Jesus himself was alright, supposedly, but I'm not confident that what we read today is what he said or did.) I think my biggest problem with these religions is they don't consciously incorporate the everyday miracles of the natural world into their spirits, like the Native Americans & other older paths did.
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        Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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          #5
          Re: Your religious books

          1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?
          - I'm the sole practitioner of my religion but I guess you could say my BOS is my religious text. I am very attached to those books and turn to them for comfort in difficult times. I find adding to them therapeutic too; the decorating pages as much as the actual writing.

          2 What makes it true for you?
          - My BOS has grown and changed with me, but everything that's in there I believed at the time of writing. Every volume contains an outline of my current beliefs and practices though. If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't have put it in there, so that's what makes it true I guess.

          3 Do you think these other books are true?
          - Seriously? Do I think those books written by HUMAN BEINGS are the word of God? No. I can't believe that.
          夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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            #6
            Re: Your religious books

            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
            1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?
            - I don't have a religion per se, but I do find comfort in a selection of books that inspire me and have for many years such as Myths and Legends of the Martial Arts, The Satanic Bible, Liber Null & Psychonaut (I actually have a collection of Chaos Magic books that I adore), and honestly, my Superman, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, and iZombie graphic novels, because they are filled with messages of hope in a struggling world and epic adventures like any other sacred text.

            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
            2 What makes it true for you?
            - Any book (or form of media) can have truth for the believer. If you can read between the lines - even if they are put there by your need of seeing all things as spiritual and blessings from the divine - there are many lessons of truth. May sound odd, but Supergirl really is a role model and has a sense of the divine and something familiar because she is so compassionate yet filled with rage. The multi-verse of science-fiction and fantasy are really no different than the sacred texts of the ancient days - entities and creatures from various dimensions and humans with spectacular powers that are either working towards destroying the universe or saving it.

            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
            3 Do you think these other books are true? *and don't weasel out with 'well it's true for the believer' kind of answers. This isn't some political debate where you have to make sure you don't say the wrong thing to the crowd. Screw the crowd. Be real honest!
            I think everything has a sense of truth to it from religious texts having a hidden meaning through the use of numerology, political agendas, and moral dogmas to modern forms of media that I already mentioned that are filled with moral lessons.

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              #7
              Re: Your religious books

              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
              1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?
              Yeah, it's called the Qur'an. Which is an Arabic word that roughly means the recital, that which is recited or read.

              2 What makes it true for you?

              Short answer: It is not possible for a human being to have created it. Because of its precise language and nuances, the facts contained in it, its predictions etc. there is no way a human being could have produced it.

              Longer answer: It is the only religious book that talks about actual proof. It provides falsification tests and proofs and even explicitly challenges its reader to find error in it. No other book would contain verses like "O mankind, there has come to you a conclusive proof from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear light." and "...Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

              Usually other religious people talk about faith in your heart and give you subjective ways as to why you should believe. The Qur'an actually lays down objective arguments for you and tells you to test it yourself. It is something tangible and can be easily examined and thought about using your mind.

              Perhaps this way of thinking, that you need evidence before you claim something to be true is why the modern scientific method was first mainly developed by Muslim scientists back in the day.

              3 Do you think these other books are true? *and don't weasel out with 'well it's true for the believer' kind of answers. This isn't some political debate where you have to make sure you don't say the wrong thing to the crowd. Screw the crowd. Be real honest!
              They do contain truth in them, and there's a portion in them that I know are from god. But as a whole it is clear that these books are not true. But just because I disagree with a religion or a book, doesn't mean there's a great deal to be learned from them.
              [4:82]

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                #8
                Re: Your religious books

                Definitive book? No.

                I do like The Golden Treatise of Hermes Trismagistis, though, because it requires deep thought to make sense of it, and deep thought is what is required.

                Other books? Well, Alchemists find truth where it is. Paracelceus, for instance, considered The Book of Genesis as the ultimate Alchemical text, and all myths are used to convey truth.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #9
                  Re: Your religious books

                  No one "book" exists in my practice but there are many books that contain bits and pieces of truth. There are also many books that promote faith and belief but not necessarily truth.
                  For me, "truth" is immutable. If it is truth then it has always been true and it will always be true. Beliefs are mutable as they change with perspective and faith is just belief that stands in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Faith stands even when proof exists that it is in error.

                  I hold no truth beyond that deity, in all it's forms, is "big enough" to accept acknowledgement by any name and from any person or group in any way the believers honestly see it.

                  I have found no religious texts that are containers of truth. Religious texts are like governmental laws which are meant to control people while giving them guidelines in etiquette and ethics which in life change. The study of the Sumerian civilization shows that remarkably well.

                  If a religion uses exclusivity then it is surely not from deity. The Creator doesn't discriminate. The creator's love is unconditional. So long as religion is used to make one group hate another it cannot be from the creator.
                  The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                  I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                    #10
                    Re: Your religious books

                    No

                    Not Applicable

                    They contain elements of truth. They are written by mortals and mortal writing breeds error (like for instance, inadequate glorification of pizza).
                    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                      #11
                      Re: Your religious books

                      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                      Questions:
                      1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?
                      2 What makes it true for you?
                      It's got good advice and is full of common sense we don't often think of. Unfortunately, as some people have pointed out, there's a little misogyny in there too. Odin was burned and spurned by a few maidens.

                      3 Do you think these other books are true? *and don't weasel out with 'well it's true for the believer' kind of answers. This isn't some political debate where you have to make sure you don't say the wrong thing to the crowd. Screw the crowd. Be real honest!
                      I'm not worried about offending anyone, because it's not my intent to offend anyone by saying I don't believe all religious books are completely true or completely false. My weaseling consists of quoting Gandhi: "After long study and experience, I have come to the conclusion that [1] all religions are true; [2] all religions have some error in them; [3] all religions are almost as dear to me as my own Hinduism, in as much as all human beings should be as dear to one as one's own close relatives. My own veneration for other faiths is the same as that for my own faith; therefore no thought of conversion is possible."
                      śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                      śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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                        #12
                        Re: Your religious books

                        Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                        Christians have the Bible, Islam the Qur'an, Judaism has the Torah etc etc.
                        Many look to these books as THE WORD because it's old, it's consistently (for the most part) the same story through time, and it's popular. This sorta makes it 'true' in the mind of the believer. I'm guessing.

                        Questions:
                        1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?

                        2 What makes it true for you?

                        3 Do you think these other books are true? *and don't weasel out with 'well it's true for the believer' kind of answers. This isn't some political debate where you have to make sure you don't say the wrong thing to the crowd. Screw the crowd. Be real honest!
                        1. Because I'm an eclectic pagan, there's nothing for my belief except what I've written down. So, I suppose my Book of Mirrors is that.

                        2. It's true for me because it's my own personal experiences. I've researched it, I've lived it, I know it.

                        3. I believe that all knowledge is scared, and that all paths have both truth and wonderful ideas to them, as well as terrible. I think a lot of what is in holy books is allegorical and to guide humans on paths to be good people, but that doesn't make them "false". Just that every work of it can't be true to history or reality.
                        Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

                        Honorary Nord.

                        Habbalah Vlogs

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                          #13
                          Re: Your religious books

                          With the exception (so often the case) of Hinduism, I don't think pagan religions have sacred books, although they may have books accorded great respect.

                          Of those scriptures I've read, at least in part, I have little respect for the Bible or the Quran, but there's a lot of good stuff in the Hindu scriptures.

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                            #14
                            Re: Your religious books

                            Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post
                            Of those scriptures I've read, at least in part, I have little respect for the Bible or the Quran, but there's a lot of good stuff in the Hindu scriptures.
                            Don't sell the Bible short. Of the Old Testament books, those like the Song of Solomon, Daniel, Ruth, Ecclesiastes, Maccabees, Proverbs, Psalms are full of poetry and lessons. In fact the Song of Solomon's love poetry is as erotic as hell. In the New Testament the only books I think are worthwhile are the synoptic gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. John is too metaphysical, Revelation is like Alice In Wonderland on acid, and the letters of Paul are mostly inconsistent and incoherent ramblings.
                            śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                            śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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                              #15
                              Re: Your religious books

                              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                              1 Does your religion have a definitive' book'?
                              Not exactly, no. Not in the sense that the Abrahamic religions do. But the Greeks in Antiquity thought of certain texts as being important reflections of the gods and their stories, and of their own conceptions of ancient history. Most especially Epic poetry of Homer and Hesiod, the Homeric hymns, and the Orphic hymns. Later texts are useful, like the Classical dramas, the Argonautica, and the Dionysiaca, though they were of much less antiquity than the Epics.

                              Aside from actual ancient source material? Greek Religion by Walter Burkert. Easily the most thorough examination of the actual practice of ancient Hellenic and Hellenistic religion. Obviously not 'holy writ', but a damn good guidebook.

                              2 What makes it true for you?
                              In the case of actual Greek and Roman literature and mythology? It was part of a living tradition of polytheism, a tradition I am engaged in reviving. As such, they contain the fragmented remains of the culture and religion that informs my own practices and beliefs.
                              In the case of academic books about ancient religion and mythology? It helps me in having a better historical context as to how these traditions came about and interacted.

                              3 Do you think these other books are true?
                              For me, it's not a hard 'yes' or 'no' but a matter of degrees. Is Homer's Iliad an exact account of the Trojan War? I don't think so. Did the Trojan War, as a broad-strokes event, happen? I think it may have. Did Agamemnon and Atreus and their ilk actually exist? Maybe, or at least based on real people--not unlike the Jesus of the New Testament.

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