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Thread: arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

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    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

    The whole carrying guns at the Repub convention...nothing to go wrong there...

    It only takes one crazy with a gun to go way off the planet....
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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    ISIS would rather behead people than die bombing them. (jk)

    I think allowing guns at major conventions is a great idea. Mass killers choose "gun free zones" because they can be the only person with a gun. Nobody would want to try to use a gun when there is a population where more than 50% of the people are carrying there own guns! If they are stupid enough to try they will be stopped before the second or third shot. That means no mass killing since to be a mass killing there has to be at least three innocents killed.

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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsFriend View Post
    ISIS would rather behead people than die bombing them. (jk)

    I think allowing guns at major conventions is a great idea. Mass killers choose "gun free zones" because they can be the only person with a gun. Nobody would want to try to use a gun when there is a population where more than 50% of the people are carrying there own guns! If they are stupid enough to try they will be stopped before the second or third shot. That means no mass killing since to be a mass killing there has to be at least three innocents killed.
    That's a possibility. The other is a rousing case of

    blue on blue on blue on blue on blue on blue on blue....

    when an uncoordinated mob with imperfect information starts reacting to gunfire

    I prefer your scenario but I'm somewhat skeptical of its odds.
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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    A huge group of untrained people carrying guns because they feel the need to protect themselves...

    You don't even need a terrorist - all you need is ballon popping and they'll create their own bloodbath.

    And that's without including Trump's goons who have already shown a propensity for violence.
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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    It's funny that the scenario is unbelievable because it happens more often than mass murders. It is relatively easy to spot the bad guy with a gun and fairly easy to see the good guys shooting back. In a mall last year (I don't have the link - sorry) an active shooter saw a man with a gun and stopped shooting and turned his gun on himself. There is also the statistic that police hit their intended target less than 30% of the time while civilians hit their targets more than 70% of the time in actual shootings. In my experience being a member of a police range I would much rather have civilians protecting me with guns than police because generally (there are some very good shooters on police forces) cops are bad shots. I am not a perfect shot but I train more and use my gun more than most police do. I choose to carry and recognize the responsibility of doping so. I have only drawn my gun once in the 43 years that I have carried one and that was on an attacking animal. I did not have to use my gun.

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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsFriend View Post
    It's funny that the scenario is unbelievable because it happens more often than mass murders. It is relatively easy to spot the bad guy with a gun and fairly easy to see the good guys shooting back. In a mall last year (I don't have the link - sorry) an active shooter saw a man with a gun and stopped shooting and turned his gun on himself. There is also the statistic that police hit their intended target less than 30% of the time while civilians hit their targets more than 70% of the time in actual shootings. In my experience being a member of a police range I would much rather have civilians protecting me with guns than police because generally (there are some very good shooters on police forces) cops are bad shots. I am not a perfect shot but I train more and use my gun more than most police do. I choose to carry and recognize the responsibility of doping so. I have only drawn my gun once in the 43 years that I have carried one and that was on an attacking animal. I did not have to use my gun.
    Could you reference any examples where groups of excited armed people prevented a mass shooting?
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    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    The secret service put the kibosh on people carrying,so no go with the armed political nut jobs.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    First, people who carry concealed weapons are not prone to get excited about pulling their guns. It is not something we look forward to. There are multiple reports in every American Rifleman magazine each month of local papers published events where people use their own legal weapons to protect themselves and others. Most of the time no shots are even fired but the criminal recognizing an armed person either gives up or leaves. There was one a couple of months ago where a man entered a large barber shop with about twenty or so people in the place and started shooting. One of the patron drew his own gun and fired once disabling the armed attacker. The sheriff told the reporter that this man saved lives and that this could have easily been another "mass shooting" had it not been for the guy with the concealed weapon. There was a similar event in Seattle in last months edition where a person with a concealed pistol permit stopped an active shooter after one innocent was injured. nobody but the criminal died. I don't keep the copies of these magazines unless there is an article that has special interest to me so I can't give you details. These events happen daily across the nation and are rarely in the news because they are not deemed news worthy. I also tend to think that if more people knew how often guns were used by normal people to stop or prevent crimes it would be impossible to further restrict the right to own and carry a gun in this country.

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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsFriend View Post
    I train more and use my gun more than most police do.

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    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsFriend View Post
    First, people who carry concealed weapons are not prone to get excited about pulling their guns. It is not something we look forward to. There are multiple reports in every American Rifleman magazine each month of local papers published events where people use their own legal weapons to protect themselves and others. Most of the time no shots are even fired but the criminal recognizing an armed person either gives up or leaves. There was one a couple of months ago where a man entered a large barber shop with about twenty or so people in the place and started shooting. One of the patron drew his own gun and fired once disabling the armed attacker. The sheriff told the reporter that this man saved lives and that this could have easily been another "mass shooting" had it not been for the guy with the concealed weapon. There was a similar event in Seattle in last months edition where a person with a concealed pistol permit stopped an active shooter after one innocent was injured. nobody but the criminal died. I don't keep the copies of these magazines unless there is an article that has special interest to me so I can't give you details. These events happen daily across the nation and are rarely in the news because they are not deemed news worthy. I also tend to think that if more people knew how often guns were used by normal people to stop or prevent crimes it would be impossible to further restrict the right to own and carry a gun in this country.
    Armed crowds of wannabe heroes? Each situation you have mentioned involves one shooter, and one armed person.

    I'm looking for the mob scenes that more accurately reflect a political national convention, especially something in which participants have previously shown a willingness to deal with opposition via violence.

    I can't find comparable situations in the US, outside of movies. In other countries, where excited groups carrying weapons is more common, the results look frightening.

    Also, in reviewing the psychological literature on the behavior of crowds in panic situations, I am inclined to stand by my statement.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

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