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arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

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    #16
    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

    Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
    Unless you have some training or experience with real people and real guns in an active shooter situation you are fantasizing.
    TPM is ex-Army and I think his deployment was Iraq, my memory might be wrong. Thal, Anu and Monsno are all ex-Navy. Monsno may or may not have other relevant experience. I'm not gonna comment on what relevant studies any of them has done. Corbin is a civilian gun owner who I'm relatively confident keeps in practice with his firearms and you don't need to know a damn thing about what I can do with a gun unless you threaten me while a weapon is in my hands. I say all of this with a clear conscience because the background information I've just provided is freely available on PF to anyone who pays a modicum of attention to other forum members. If you are going to play the card of relevant experience and training then their collective experience in relevant fields trumps anything you've mentioned to date and they all seem opposed to the idea of heavily armed civilian crowds as an answer to mass shootings. Care to try again.
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #17
      Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

      I'm strongly on the "NO" side about the general population being armed at large events. There are many factors that go into whether or not someone can manage a crowd shooting scenario, and most gun owners are better equipped to deal with a home invasion, etc., where there's one target and not a lot of screaming people in the way.
      I live in an area where most people have guns. I see people open carrying at Walmart, etc., as a matter of course. I'm an excellent shot myself. But, a lot of these same people have never even been in a real crowd. I would not support them taking action in a situation like a Madison Square Garden game/concert, other than the few who actually have military or other training which would support that. I would not support myself taking action in a situation like that at this point in time, due to age-related things. Some of my friends who are even older still think they are Rambo, yet I see them taking longer to react at traffic lights, etc. These are the very ones who insist that everyone should be armed everywhere! Ugh.
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        #18
        Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
        TPM is ex-Army and I think his deployment was Iraq, my memory might be wrong. Thal, Anu and Monsno are all ex-Navy. Monsno may or may not have other relevant experience. I'm not gonna comment on what relevant studies any of them has done. Corbin is a civilian gun owner who I'm relatively confident keeps in practice with his firearms and you don't need to know a damn thing about what I can do with a gun unless you threaten me while a weapon is in my hands. I say all of this with a clear conscience because the background information I've just provided is freely available on PF to anyone who pays a modicum of attention to other forum members. If you are going to play the card of relevant experience and training then their collective experience in relevant fields trumps anything you've mentioned to date and they all seem opposed to the idea of heavily armed civilian crowds as an answer to mass shootings. Care to try again.
        Sort of plays into what your saying.

        Growing up it was pretty set as a boy you had a gun and hunted or shoot. One day a number of us were out hunting and something came out of the thick brush. Lots of rifles suddenly going off with lots of skilled shooters. Yet it didn't stop people from turning and shooting, bullets striking in the tree's near you or over you and some bouncing off the ground. Sort of like pulling targets on the range and listening to rounds strike overhead or worse come bouncing back up under the shelter after the rebound off the metal frame on a target. Lovely though if its a tracer round.

        That is the scenario I think most likely to occur in a dense environment even if everyone is a skilled marksman. Locating, positioning and applying fire coming from all directions potentially and in a second potentially no one knowing who the shooter is and shooting at other well intended people who've drawn their weapons. Not even the luxury of having some type of uniform or markings to indicate who or what they are. There are enough friendly fire kills in conflicts where you actually have some idea of who and where the shooter is and you have uniforms to denote who is who. All of that occurring as panic and disorder strike and the mass moves as a herd as they try to evade the shooter and exit the area. Trampling and shoving anyone and everyone, even those who are trying to engage and are now a danger to others as the herd slams into them.

        Sorry no place to introduce firearms simply to have them. Be like screaming fire in a crowded room and then trying to direct and control people as they run scared while you look to disarm or return fire across a bobbing and weaving sea of bodies and heads.
        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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          #19
          Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

          Anyone remember that lady who was a gun owner, put her gun under her car seat. It rolled in back. Her toddler picked it up and shot her in the back?

          That's not even a terrorist. That's a toddler.

          Come on now.
          Satan is my spirit animal

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            #20
            Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

            ^^^ That's one of those Venn diagram thingies. Some toddler are terrorists, but not all terrorists are toddlers, etc.
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              #21
              Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

              All toddlers are terrorists.

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                #22
                Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

                That woman is/was not that bright..You do the child safe thing..those plugs in the electric sockets,child proof locks on cabinets,you know the drill if you are/were a parent.
                MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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                  #23
                  Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

                  Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                  All toddlers are terrorists.
                  Aint that the horrid truth. They have no respect for others. Didn't we decide it's ok to have toddlers get the death sentence?
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #24
                    Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

                    Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                    That woman is/was not that bright..You do the child safe thing..those plugs in the electric sockets,child proof locks on cabinets,you know the drill if you are/were a parent.
                    Most definitely. I know I get asked why I go so far as to have my grandchildren treat play guns, play Bows, etc with the same treatment, respect and usage I do for the real things. Always figured if they don't start out the right way then you can't expect them to unlearn and start over later.
                    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                      #25
                      Re: Trying the Pakistan thing again...

                      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                      Aint that the horrid truth. They have no respect for others. Didn't we decide it's ok to have toddlers get the death sentence?
                      Kids,not for the faint of heart.......Best to have them while young because you can keep up with them..A kid,energy gone wild...
                      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                      sigpic

                      my new page here,let me know what you think.


                      nothing but the shadow of what was

                      witchvox
                      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                        #26
                        Re: arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

                        To be clear,I did not start this debate thread...just to be clear.
                        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                        sigpic

                        my new page here,let me know what you think.


                        nothing but the shadow of what was

                        witchvox
                        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                          #27
                          Re: arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

                          Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                          To be clear,I did not start this debate thread...just to be clear.

                          You did not, it was just the best place to cut the other thread.
                          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                            #28
                            Re: arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

                            I know...it just startled me to see my name on the beginning..I am only gonna watch anyway.
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                            sigpic

                            my new page here,let me know what you think.


                            nothing but the shadow of what was

                            witchvox
                            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                              #29
                              Re: arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

                              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                              To be clear,I did not start this debate thread...just to be clear.
                              "Let me make one thing perfectly clear" - Pres. Nixon. We used to say it all the time in school back then.
                              sigpic
                              Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                                #30
                                Re: arming the unwashed masses: good or bad? split from Pakistan thread

                                I don't know. It may seem like a good idea to bring guns in a convention first, but you have to do a background check, see if you're mentally stable to handle a gun. Not to go in the wrong hands. Then there's chaos and disorder in the way and things will go out of hand. So I'm really going to say no on this one.

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