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Thread: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

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    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
    It costs far more to execute than to house for life so it would seem execution is a larger drain on the taxpayer dollar.
    Only because that's how the law is set up.
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  2. #12
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
    Here is my problem with the death penalty and why I feel it is indefensible. And my objection has nothing to do with the killing of people who have done horrible things. I have a hard time sympathizing. However, it would seem to me that the death penalty would only be fair, and not morally wrong, in a perfect justice system. But, we have a far from a perfect justice system.

    1 in 25 Death Row prisoners are innocent according to studies: http://www.newsweek.com/one-25-execu...-claims-248889

    The Death Penalty, like the Drug War, and our entire Justice System itself disproportionately affects minorities: https://www.aclu.org/race-and-death-penalty

    The taxpayer cost of the Death Penalty is incredible, costing far, far more than life imprisonment: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

    The death penalty is not an actual deterrent to crime: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/stud...tive-deterrent

    Just given the fact that you know innocent people will die, I wonder how can anyone morally justify the death penalty in our current system. The death penalty only works in a perfect system, where everyone is guilty and the punishment is provided fairly. That is not the case and never will be. It is indefensible and it boggles my mind, that given the numbers, people defend and advocate it's use.
    Pretty much this, almost verbatim.
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  3. #13
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    There are people who deserve execution.

    I don't wanna be the one to pull the switch. I don't wanna ask someone else to do it for me, either.

    (The likely response - "I will." My response - "Good for you." Saving time here...)
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

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    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    To be honest, for those who are really awful and beyond rehabilitation, I still think death isn't a fitting punishment. It's an easy out. Even in a fairly just prison system, jail is a tedious dull place, and if you're there forever, your life is clearly going nowhere. I'd rather have awful people spend a lifetime locked away waiting for it to be over than give them quick out.

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    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    Have to admit I am split on this question.

    On one hand if we have a rabid dog or one that attacks a person then we put them down, period. Yet a human who does the same we allow to linger in the system, or worse claim to be rehabilitated and release them. Yet the last rehabilitation results I saw indicated hard core child molesters and abusers don't have a great rehabilitation rate. Serial type murder's frequently slip through the system before finally being caught, many times on some minor offense that had nothing to do with the actual murders.

    Yet the other side is the fact we can't say positively that every person who is charged and given the death sentence actually is guilty. Even if guilty circumstances may differ so greatly that death for one seems over kill while for another seems almost anticlimatic compared to their charges. So does the woman who kills an abusive spouse get the same treatment as say a Ted Bundy? Some would say murder is murder regardless of the reason why one committed the murder. Yet is it really? Consider the child killers such as Mary Bell. She was rehabilitated and now lives under a new name I understand. Yet is she less guilty for her murders than the adult who does the same? Given what she did it was as hard and unforgiving as any adult's actions.

    Of course there is the automatic appeal then for the death sentence and who knows how many counter appeals that can be generated. All tying into the added costs of housing said prisoners.

    So at this point in time i'd have to say it is a case by case situation.
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    I'm against. Always have been.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    Quote Originally Posted by DanieMarie View Post
    I'd rather have awful people spend a lifetime locked away waiting for it to be over than give them quick out.
    What end does this serve? All you end up with is highly irritable prisoners, who were already very violent, with nothing to do and, more worryingly, nothing to lose. Then you end up with murdered prisoners, prisoners who may well have been on the road to rehabilitation. Empty the cell and fill it with someone for whom a rehabilitative system is beneficial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    Have to admit I am split on this question.

    On one hand if we have a rabid dog or one that attacks a person then we put them down, period. Yet a human who does the same we allow to linger in the system, or worse claim to be rehabilitated and release them. Yet the last rehabilitation results I saw indicated hard core child molesters and abusers don't have a great rehabilitation rate. Serial type murder's frequently slip through the system before finally being caught, many times on some minor offense that had nothing to do with the actual murders.
    When I read this, I thought "The USA must be very different from the UK then, because in the UK violent sex criminals actually have the lowest recidivism rate of all criminals, with property criminals being the worst. So I did a little research. As it turns out, officially sex offenders have a recidivism rate of around 5% for the first three years (http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch5_recidivism.html). However the article rightly points out that as few as one in four women might actually be reporting a rape. Let's assume that this is the same amongst other instances such as incest and paedophilia, it is unlikely to be that high for incest but paedophilia victims may be. So that makes 20% of sex offenders reoffend after the first three years, with 3/4 of them getting away with it. That does seem high, and it is unacceptable, but compare it to other rates.

    On average (http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/pages/welcome.aspx) the rate of total recidivism is 67.8%! So sex offenders are, even by liberal statistics assuming it is four times higher than actually reported, more than three times less likely to commit the same crime again than any other criminal chosen at random. For a bit of scale, 82.1% of property offenders, 76.9% of drug offenders, 73.6% of public order offenders and 71.3% of violent offenders (ie murder, GBH, ABH, assault and battery).

    I think this has to do with the sort of socialization amongst drug dealers and burglars. They rarely work alone, least of all drug dealers. Sex offenders, on the other hand, are similar to terrorists in that they have often entered a world of self-indulgence through isolation. Once they are out of that "comfort zone" that they've created, they generally become aware of the atrocity they committed or were going to commit, because there is very little "gang culture" for paedophilia, rape or incest.

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    So at this point in time I'd have to say it is a case by case situation.
    I would agree, and if there were ever a death penalty here, it should most definitely be case by case, rather than "murder is murder". A child who is playing with the gun that belongs to their careless parent and accidently shoots dead their brother or sister is not a murderer. Rather, the parent should be charged with neglect, manslaughter and every other accusation that can stick.
    I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
    Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
    But that day you know I left my money
    And I thought of you only
    All that copper glowing fine

  8. #18
    Lord Contrarian Denarius's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    I'm of two minds about this. Immediately I don't like the idea of the government having any sort of authority in terms of morality or when any citizen's life will end. On the other hand, as long as they get a truly fair trial and their fate is ultimately decided by a jury of their peers I can't fault it too much.

    Hesitantly support, for now.

    Still, I don't like that the government has a near monopoly on gathering evidence but that's more a problem with the legal system as a whole.
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    Silver Member anubisa's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    I think it really depends on the crime. I am sort of divided on it. I really think that there are some people who deserve the death penalty, but I think that people who have committed horrible crimes should stew in it. They should really have to think about what they did. It's a difficult decision I think.
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  10. #20
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    There is the eye for an eye school..The idea that a murderer should die exactly as the victem did.
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