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Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

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  • #16
    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    I'm against. Always have been.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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    • #17
      Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

      Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
      I'd rather have awful people spend a lifetime locked away waiting for it to be over than give them quick out.
      What end does this serve? All you end up with is highly irritable prisoners, who were already very violent, with nothing to do and, more worryingly, nothing to lose. Then you end up with murdered prisoners, prisoners who may well have been on the road to rehabilitation. Empty the cell and fill it with someone for whom a rehabilitative system is beneficial.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
      Have to admit I am split on this question.

      On one hand if we have a rabid dog or one that attacks a person then we put them down, period. Yet a human who does the same we allow to linger in the system, or worse claim to be rehabilitated and release them. Yet the last rehabilitation results I saw indicated hard core child molesters and abusers don't have a great rehabilitation rate. Serial type murder's frequently slip through the system before finally being caught, many times on some minor offense that had nothing to do with the actual murders.
      When I read this, I thought "The USA must be very different from the UK then, because in the UK violent sex criminals actually have the lowest recidivism rate of all criminals, with property criminals being the worst. So I did a little research. As it turns out, officially sex offenders have a recidivism rate of around 5% for the first three years (http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch5_recidivism.html). However the article rightly points out that as few as one in four women might actually be reporting a rape. Let's assume that this is the same amongst other instances such as incest and paedophilia, it is unlikely to be that high for incest but paedophilia victims may be. So that makes 20% of sex offenders reoffend after the first three years, with 3/4 of them getting away with it. That does seem high, and it is unacceptable, but compare it to other rates.

      On average (http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/pages/welcome.aspx) the rate of total recidivism is 67.8%! So sex offenders are, even by liberal statistics assuming it is four times higher than actually reported, more than three times less likely to commit the same crime again than any other criminal chosen at random. For a bit of scale, 82.1% of property offenders, 76.9% of drug offenders, 73.6% of public order offenders and 71.3% of violent offenders (ie murder, GBH, ABH, assault and battery).

      I think this has to do with the sort of socialization amongst drug dealers and burglars. They rarely work alone, least of all drug dealers. Sex offenders, on the other hand, are similar to terrorists in that they have often entered a world of self-indulgence through isolation. Once they are out of that "comfort zone" that they've created, they generally become aware of the atrocity they committed or were going to commit, because there is very little "gang culture" for paedophilia, rape or incest.

      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
      So at this point in time I'd have to say it is a case by case situation.
      I would agree, and if there were ever a death penalty here, it should most definitely be case by case, rather than "murder is murder". A child who is playing with the gun that belongs to their careless parent and accidently shoots dead their brother or sister is not a murderer. Rather, the parent should be charged with neglect, manslaughter and every other accusation that can stick.
      I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
      Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
      But that day you know I left my money
      And I thought of you only
      All that copper glowing fine

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      • #18
        Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

        I'm of two minds about this. Immediately I don't like the idea of the government having any sort of authority in terms of morality or when any citizen's life will end. On the other hand, as long as they get a truly fair trial and their fate is ultimately decided by a jury of their peers I can't fault it too much.

        Hesitantly support, for now.

        Still, I don't like that the government has a near monopoly on gathering evidence but that's more a problem with the legal system as a whole.
        Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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        • #19
          Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

          I think it really depends on the crime. I am sort of divided on it. I really think that there are some people who deserve the death penalty, but I think that people who have committed horrible crimes should stew in it. They should really have to think about what they did. It's a difficult decision I think.
          Anubisa

          Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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          • #20
            Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

            There is the eye for an eye school..The idea that a murderer should die exactly as the victem did.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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            • #21
              Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

              Originally posted by Briton View Post
              Only because that's how the law is set up.
              Only because we have to have a lengthy appeals process because the State gets it wrong so many times it requires 20 years of review.

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              • #22
                Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                I definitely think there are people that deserve to die for their crimes. But the fact that, even with all our tech, we still get it wrong sometimes, I can't condone it. Honestly, I'm of the opinion that certain crimes should constitute being sent to an island in the middle of nowhere, survival of the fittest. But we tried that with Australia and that didn't work all that well either. Shrug.
                We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

                I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
                It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
                Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
                -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

                Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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                • #23
                  Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                  I don't trust the government, any branch, enough to give them the power of life and death. I am not against corporal punishment, including death, but it needs to be quick and final.
                  The time to administer the death penalty is during the commission of the crime. That way it is directly connected to a barbaric act and not to getting caught years later.
                  The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                  I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                    Remind me not to look any kind of guilty around you...
                    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                    sigpic

                    my new page here,let me know what you think.


                    nothing but the shadow of what was

                    witchvox
                    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                    • #25
                      Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                      Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                      It costs far more to execute than to house for life so it would seem execution is a larger drain on the taxpayer dollar.
                      I am not quite sure how a .22 shell costs more than a lifetime behind bars. I am for the death penalty for those who truly deserve it. I don't see it as an eye for an eye but as true justice done.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                        That's a Chinese thing,shoot you,and charge your family for the bullet cost.
                        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                        sigpic

                        my new page here,let me know what you think.


                        nothing but the shadow of what was

                        witchvox
                        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                        • #27
                          Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                          Originally posted by anubisa View Post
                          I think it really depends on the crime. I am sort of divided on it. I really think that there are some people who deserve the death penalty, but I think that people who have committed horrible crimes should stew in it. They should really have to think about what they did. It's a difficult decision I think.
                          One problem is that there are people who commit horrible crimes that "stewing in it" will do nothing but prime them to commit more crimes. Psychopaths rarely ever feel guilt about there crimes and are rarely able to be rehabilitated. Same with sociopaths, although they are not usually the violent types. A serial killer stewing in what they did only lets them remember and celebrate their crime.

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                          That's a Chinese thing,shoot you,and charge your family for the bullet cost.
                          I am not saying that the cost should pass on to the family. But while it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to house a violent criminal for life it only costs cents on the dollar for a .22 shell. That would be a huge cost saving measure.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                            Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post
                            I am not quite sure how a .22 shell costs more than a lifetime behind bars. I am for the death penalty for those who truly deserve it. I don't see it as an eye for an eye but as true justice done.
                            The actual killing isn't the expensive part. The long appeal process built to make sure you aren't killing the wrong person is the expensive part and removing that appeal process increases the odds of executing the innocent. An old article but



                            There are lots of errors in death penalty cases unless dramatic improvements have been made since 2000.
                            "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
                            ―Thon

                            "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

                            Yoda

                            Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                            • #29
                              Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                              Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post
                              I am not quite sure how a .22 shell costs more than a lifetime behind bars. I am for the death penalty for those who truly deserve it. I don't see it as an eye for an eye but as true justice done.
                              Because you can't just shoot someone and have it be done with. You have to keep them in jail for a while as they go through a lengthy appeals process. Considering that even THAT doesn't keep some innocent people from facing the death penalty, it's hard to morally argue for just shooting them upon conviction and being done with it. We used to do that (though it was hanging back then). There's a good reason we don't anymore.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                                It seems to me that people who are advocating express use of the death penalty fail to address the obvious issue of innocent people getting executed which means that you are either so naive that you believe the justice system gets it right 100% of the time or that you just don't care that innocent people will get executed.

                                So, which is it?

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