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Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

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  • #16
    Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
    When that decision is to pray the appendicitis away, child abuse laws are covered under the promotion of the general welfare purpose for which the Constitution was ordained and established.

    Child abuse laws are state laws too. If one actually believed in states rights, then they'd absolutely believe that the state has the right to decide if not getting treatment for a child's treatable condition is or is not legal.
    I'm not entirely sure that using the General Welfare clause here would fly if the feds tried it but it's also a moot point because this was a state action and the Tenth Amendment provides Connecticut any power not claimed by the feds or denied to the states by the US constitution and I don't remember seeing a list off specific authorizations in Connecticut's constitution (though admittedly, I skimmed).
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    • #17
      Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

      in the same website a few pages later...
      Idaho state Senator Lee Heider is defending a sate law that allowed the parents of a girl born with a congenital heart defect to refuse her requests to see a doctor saying it is 'freedom of religion.'
      Satan is my spirit animal

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      • #18
        Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

        This was a rather interesting article on the subject...

        And, on the constitutional question, I'll add this (from the article):

        ...a string of US supreme court decisions that distinguish between freedom of belief and freedom of practice, which affirm the former and limit the latter where it causes harm. These stretch back as far as Reynolds v United States in 1878, which forbade Mormon polygamy, and include Prince v Massachusetts, which affirmed the federal government’s ability to secure the welfare of children even when it conflicts with religious belief.
        But, you know, considering the people that defend these sorts of "religious freedom" laws are the same sort of people that tell people being mistreated or discriminated against to just move or get a job somewhere else...I'm going to go with a dose of their own medicine.

        If you truly believe in the supremacy of states rights, then the state has the right to pass whatever the heck they want in this regard. If you don't like it, move somewhere where they let you pray the *whatever condition you have* away. Idaho is supposed to be good for this.
        Last edited by thalassa; 21 Apr 2016, 09:13.
        “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

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        • #19
          Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

          Government, at any level, has no power over individual rights. Rights can only be restricted when they interfere with the rights of others. "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose"
          The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
          I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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          • #20
            Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

            Well that's where all the conflict comes in.
            A. I have the right to let my dog run
            B. your dog ate my chickens

            A. I have to right to smoke cigs
            B. I have the right not to inhale 2nd hand smoke

            A. I have the right to play music
            B. I have the right to a night's sleep in my own home

            etc., etc., etc. Courts are full of this.
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            • #21
              Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

              A parent wanting their child to have "alternative treatments" is interfering in the rights of that child to live. A parent's rights over their child are not absolute and the government has an invested interest in the livelihood of children AND a right to interfere when the parents is endangering the child. In some states, they place the priority of the child's life over that of the parent (whether its a "religious freedom" issue or not) in other states, they don't. If you claim to support states rights and you don't like it, move.
              Last edited by thalassa; 21 Apr 2016, 11:03.
              “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

              “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
              ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

              "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
              ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

              "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

              Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

                "States rights" is generally code for taking away rights but that is off topic.

                A child who's best interests are not being represented by the parent deserves representation by someone who has their best interests in mind. Cases can be ambiguous and controversial at times but I think there is something wrong if we think if is the right of the parent to take a path that will ultimately harm the child. If my kid got cancer and I became stupid enough to try herbal remedies instead of actual treatment I would hope my tax dollars went to work.against my wishes.

                In all cases like these someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to feel like their parental rights are violated. But, parental rights only go as far as whats best for the child. If what you are doing is detrimental to the child your parental rights are null.

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                • #23
                  Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

                  If you remember the case of the girl in a coma,legally brain dead...and the fight in the family about taking her off life support..went all the way to the supreme court...Was in the news for years I think.

                  Here is the story about Terri Schiavo

                  It is a wiki BTW..case went on from 1990 to 2005.
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                  • #24
                    Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

                    The Terri Schiavo thing was ridicolous. I remember that dominating the news cycle when I was in High School. They dragged her husband through the mud.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Forced chemotherapy? Yay or ixnay?

                      On the one hand forcing someone to endure the hell that comes with chemo therapy is monstrous. On the other hand it has improved the life of some for years after the treatments.
                      The sad part is that it fails more often than not with some forms of cancer. Doctors don't know everything, and government and courts know less. I just feel that no agent of government should have the power of life and death over any individual. Abuse always comes from that power.

                      I am not unbiased here. I have a great friend who has gone through chemo three times and is enjoying life - knowing that his cancer will someday come back. I also lost a 7 year old niece to Leukemia after watching her go through "treatments". She was in remission for two months. When they said they wanted to do another round she told her parents "no". They let her die the way she wanted. That was the only funeral I ever cried at but I would not have forced her to endure that "treatment" again. It was rightly her choice and even at seven she had the right to accept death on her terms. It still hurts. I gotta go.
                      The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                      I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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