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Thread: The return of McCarthy...

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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    The return of McCarthy...

    Behold, the witch hunts have begun.

    Witness At Ted Cruz Hearing Accuses Congress’ Two Muslim Members Of Muslim Brotherhood Ties

    Are you now, or have you ever been a member of a Muslim organization, or have you ever associated with anyone who is?
    Last edited by B. de Corbin; 29 Jun 2016 at 04:58.
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    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    "Associated with"? How would anyone know? I've probably associated with KKK members, Black Panther members, Mafia members, and who knows what else. It's not like you meet a person and they say, "Hi, nice to meet you, I'm a terrorist."

    Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
    "Associated with"? How would anyone know? I've probably associated with KKK members, Black Panther members, Mafia members, and who knows what else. It's not like you meet a person and they say, "Hi, nice to meet you, I'm a terrorist."
    That was McCarthy and the Commie purge. People had carreers and lives ruined for having Communist "associates." My fear is that our country seems to be aiming backward at that target, with a different enemy in the sights, and innocent bystanders in between.
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    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    That was McCarthy and the Commie purge. People had carreers and lives ruined for having Communist "associates." My fear is that our country seems to be aiming backward at that target, with a different enemy in the sights, and innocent bystanders in between.
    Yup.....ignorance is full of rumors, innuendo, etc.

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    Lord Contrarian Denarius's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Here's a document that goes into detail about the ties that ISNA is alleged to have with Islamism and terrorist organizations, as well has radical Islam in general. It has a fair number of citations, where I would expect them to be, but I haven't really looked into them.

    The connection the Congressmen in question have to the organization is based off attending events and things like that. Though it does make me wonder if a white congressman attending an event associated (even tenuously) with the KKK would written off so easily.

    At any rate, this whole thing is just an accusation by a nobody. Hardly the return of McCarthy. Though if it was, well, the criticisms of McCarthy are overblown. Not the least of which being that a lot of the bad stuff people point out as McCarthyism, straight up, had nothing to do with McCarthy himself.
    Last edited by Denarius; 29 Jun 2016 at 13:22.
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    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Denarius View Post
    Here's a document that goes into detail about the ties that ISNA is alleged to have with Islamism and terrorist organizations, as well has radical Islam in general. It has a fair number of citations, where I would expect them to be, but I haven't really looked into them.
    Steven Emerson is a well-known anti-Muslim nut with a long history of *making it up as he goes along*
    The connection the Congressmen in question have to the organization is based off attending events and things like that. Though it does make me wonder if a white congressman attending an event associated (even tenuously) with the KKK would written off so easily.
    Donald Trump was endorsed by the KKK and thought it was a-OK for several days....and his supporters were cool with that.

    At any rate, this whole thing is just an accusation by a nobody. Hardly the return of McCarthy.
    It was vetted Congressional testimony by a US senator, so...this is how it starts.
    Though if it was, well, the criticisms of McCarthy are overblown. Not the least of which being that a lot of the bad stuff people point out as McCarthyism, straight up, had nothing to do with McCarthy himself.
    Tell that to the people who got screwed out of their livelihood. I'm a bit surprised actually, most libertarians I know are skeeved off about the overhead here.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

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    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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  7. #7
    Lord Contrarian Denarius's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    Donald Trump was endorsed by the KKK and thought it was a-OK for several days....and his supporters were cool with that.
    Keyword there being supporters.

    It was vetted Congressional testimony by a US senator
    Lyin' Ted.

    most libertarians I know are skeeved off about the overhead here.
    I was just pointing out that McCarthy basically turned into a scapegoat for that entire era, and posted a document that I felt was interesting and relevant. Even made a point to qualify both.
    Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Denarius View Post
    Keyword there being [I]supporters.
    Considering his supporters are enough people to have him as the presumptive Republican nominee for the Highest office in the land, that's not an insubstantial segment of the population.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  9. #9
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Denarius View Post
    At any rate, this whole thing is just an accusation by a nobody. Hardly the return of McCarthy.
    Nope. But is is where it begins.

    Though if it was, well, the criticisms of McCarthy are overblown. Not the least of which being that a lot of the bad stuff people point out as McCarthyism, straight up, had nothing to do with McCarthy himself.
    Do you ever read history written by actual historians, or are actual historians just tools?
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  10. #10
    Lord Contrarian Denarius's Avatar
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    Re: The return of McCarthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Do you ever read history written by actual historians, or are actual historians just tools?
    "Actual" historian. I am a bit skeptical of authority, elitism, and the popular narrative. That should be pretty obvious by now.

    If an argument is well made and supported, it is just as valid as the same from someone with a degree.

    Though, yes, I do actually read about history. Though I much prefer reading things written by historical figures, rather than about historical figures. Coming to my own conclusions.

    Edit: I will admit that a lot of historians do a good job of providing and preserving context and evidence.
    Last edited by Denarius; 29 Jun 2016 at 19:10.
    Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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