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  1. #33
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Where are the tweezers?


    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
    I haven't said anything jingoistic.
    Refering to the "bougouisie" as enemy without explanation is Maxist jingo.

    I would think my beliefs would be anti-jingoistic.
    If you know what you are talking about, but not if you don't. When you name a group as "enemy," being being able to explain what the characteristics are the group are, why they are the enemy, and what you would like to do about them are entirely reational questions.

    But, in reference to Marxism, bourgeoisie is the social class that controls production. They are the class that is most invested in the current economic order. Whereas the working class(the protoleriat) have no control over production and limited social mobility due to institutions that were put in place to maintain order among the working class(the police and priaons being a good example of this).
    I see. So the people I work for, and those who invest their time, energy, and money (definition of "capital"), and who take the risks to build commercial enterprises, then manage the distribution, advertising, manage all costs, and sign paychecks are the bad bougiousie, while the people who work for them are the good prols. I understand.

    So I'm a good prol because I work for others who do the jobs I don't want to do myself (accounting! Yuck! Logistics! Yuck!). But if I start a busines, like making jewelry, and then become successful enough to hire somebody to do the accounting and distribution (because I had accounting and logistics, and they take away time from actually designing and making the jewelry - which I love), giving them paying jobs using their skills and talents and education (their capital), I magically become the evil bougiousie, controling the means of production and exploiting the prols. Did I get that right?

    As for Revolution I my visions is mass radical and working class movements and the means of production being siezed and controlled by the workers.
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean. You seem to be saying that you'd like to take a busines I have struggled and sweated to build, and give it to the employees.

    Is that right?

    If so, how does that work? What would I get for the labor, time, and money I've invested? Who will manage and run the company, making the kind of decisions that built that company and made it functional?

    Dialectical materialism which is the foundation of Marxist thought is a system of anyalyais on social change and evolution(it's a touch subject. I'm still getting my head around dialectics). The Logic of Marxism by Novack is a great begginers guide into Dialectics. The Meaning of Marxism by Paul D'amoto has a good introductory chapter of dialectical materialism.
    Very fancy, but I don't give a flaming flying monkey turd about "isms." I want to know how things actually work, or will work, if they are done. I.e.: don't waste time dropping words on me. I've lived far too long to imagine that what sounds spiffy on paper will be spiffy in reality.
    Last edited by B. de Corbin; 20 Jul 2016 at 12:59.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

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