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  1. #421
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Where are the tweezers?


    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
    I haven't said anything jingoistic.
    Refering to the "bougouisie" as enemy without explanation is Maxist jingo.

    I would think my beliefs would be anti-jingoistic.
    If you know what you are talking about, but not if you don't. When you name a group as "enemy," being being able to explain what the characteristics are the group are, why they are the enemy, and what you would like to do about them are entirely reational questions.

    But, in reference to Marxism, bourgeoisie is the social class that controls production. They are the class that is most invested in the current economic order. Whereas the working class(the protoleriat) have no control over production and limited social mobility due to institutions that were put in place to maintain order among the working class(the police and priaons being a good example of this).
    I see. So the people I work for, and those who invest their time, energy, and money (definition of "capital"), and who take the risks to build commercial enterprises, then manage the distribution, advertising, manage all costs, and sign paychecks are the bad bougiousie, while the people who work for them are the good prols. I understand.

    So I'm a good prol because I work for others who do the jobs I don't want to do myself (accounting! Yuck! Logistics! Yuck!). But if I start a busines, like making jewelry, and then become successful enough to hire somebody to do the accounting and distribution (because I had accounting and logistics, and they take away time from actually designing and making the jewelry - which I love), giving them paying jobs using their skills and talents and education (their capital), I magically become the evil bougiousie, controling the means of production and exploiting the prols. Did I get that right?

    As for Revolution I my visions is mass radical and working class movements and the means of production being siezed and controlled by the workers.
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean. You seem to be saying that you'd like to take a busines I have struggled and sweated to build, and give it to the employees.

    Is that right?

    If so, how does that work? What would I get for the labor, time, and money I've invested? Who will manage and run the company, making the kind of decisions that built that company and made it functional?

    Dialectical materialism which is the foundation of Marxist thought is a system of anyalyais on social change and evolution(it's a touch subject. I'm still getting my head around dialectics). The Logic of Marxism by Novack is a great begginers guide into Dialectics. The Meaning of Marxism by Paul D'amoto has a good introductory chapter of dialectical materialism.
    Very fancy, but I don't give a flaming flying monkey turd about "isms." I want to know how things actually work, or will work, if they are done. I.e.: don't waste time dropping words on me. I've lived far too long to imagine that what sounds spiffy on paper will be spiffy in reality.
    Last edited by B. de Corbin; 20 Jul 2016 at 12:59.
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

  2. #422
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
    coastal Georgia
    *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*


    Locked til I have time to sort through and separate stuff.
    Last edited by thalassa; 20 Jul 2016 at 13:12.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

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