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    #1

    Arizona gunman and gun rights

    This past week a mad man killed six people and shot thirteen others in Arizona. His intended target apparently was a Congresswoman from that state. Before I go any further let me say I could not be more saddened at this great tragedy. None of those people deserved to be hurt or killed by this nut. But as I expected this has once again set off an attack on the legal gun owners of this country.
    What I fail to under stand is once again a person with all kinds of warning bells going off has slipped through the cracks of the "system". He had made threats both on line, to family, and facility at his school. Did no one think to point him out to the proper people? It seems to me some one should have said something.
    If you think this doesn't effect you your wrong. The press has latched on to the fact that not only did he have a gun but he also had an "altar" set up. They will ultimately try to tie him in with some type of " Group" thing to further sensationalize this tragic event.
    Why is it the press will bring in the "Experts" who will say for the most part not to give the suspect a lot of press because this is what they want in the first place. They will also warn not to do this because it could inspire copy cat attacks. And yet this is what they do each and every time.
    I'm a gun owner and have been one since I was 10 years old. It makes me shudder every time some thing like this happens. For I know the the attacks will start up again. Most of the firearms I own have a military history behind them. I am interested in not only shooting them but also there progression of development. Some people will say you can study them in books and get the same information. I say they are wrong that until you fire and tare one down you really don't understand it.
    There are millions of us who own firearms and seldom is it one of us that does a thing like this.
    Again my heart weeps for the people caught up in this tragedy
    I hope this makes some type of seance. I would also like others to voice their thoughts on both sides of the issue.
    Gargoyles watch over me...I can hear them snicker in the dark.


    Pull the operating handle (which protrudes from the right side of the receiver) smartly to the rear and release it.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

    I was just watching some news program on it. Here are the two main points that came from that.

    1) The gun sales on this particular gun will go up because of two reasons:

    1) Fear from gun owners that there will be legislation against this particular gun and so it will be a collector's item later.
    2) People wanting to collect that type of gun for curiosity's sake.


    2) Legal gun owners would begin to panic about their gun rights. And sadly, with good reason. Because everyone first looks to the weapon of a mass killing and wants to legislate the shit out of things. When maybe just someone, anyone, taking a good looksy at this guy eyeball to damn eyeball to simply answer the one question...


    Why yes, I am fucking batshit crazy and do indeed need some fucking help.


    Satan is my spirit animal

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

      as long as there are 'systems', there will be cracks in them and the 'nutballs' will slip through,

      we have much tougher gun laws here in Canada and we too have had mass shootings,

      I, personally will never own a gun. They scare me. They have their place in law enforcement and hunting, but personally, I don't see the need for other uses. That is just me. I get that others see it differently.

      do more guns in a society mean more shootings? I don't know. I would guess, yes, but it's just a guess.
      Anyone want to look up some stats, I can't, I have a crew to feed ;D
      What you see depends on what you are looking for.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

        [quote author=Celest link=topic=1385.msg28314#msg28314 date=1294870182]

        I, personally will never own a gun. They scare me. They have their place in law enforcement and hunting, but personally, I don't see the need for other uses. That is just me. I get that others see it differently.

        do more guns in a society mean more shootings? I don't know. I would guess, yes, but it's just a guess.
        Anyone want to look up some stats, I can't, I have a crew to feed ;D
        [/quote]

        I feel the same way.

        And yes, it does mean that. I had posted some stats published by a UK government office (I can't remember which one off the top of my head) on the old forums. I'm trying to find it but since I can't remember which office published it, it's hard.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

          Statistics are slippery little creatures. It seems they morph and contradict each other, depending on which sources produce or promote them.

          There are a few studies done by well-respected academics that demonstrate that increased gun ownership causes a decrease in crime. (I'm referring to Gary Kleck and John Lott.)

          Still, there is the huge problem of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, while at the same time, allowing the responsible and law abiding citizen the opportunity to adequately protect himself.

          Laughner passed the NICS background check because he had not been deemed mentally ill by any authority that was required to report that fact. Looking at his past, after he committed this atrocity, is merely a sensalization by the media. The "warning signs" were all highly subjective and anectdotal.

          The media and politicians are foaming at the mouth over this. Tragedy is profitable for them, and even more profitable when someone famous or "important" is the victim.


          Comment

            #6
            Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

            The prick took the time and effort to plot out this assault. Hate to tell anti-gun lobbyists this but if I care enough to plot out a death or even many deaths,

            I DON'T NEED A GUN!!!!

            I won't try and argue gun availabity's effects on crimes of passion but the pre-meditated killing of an outdoor target whose location I can predict well let's see how do I solve this extremely difficult tactical problem?

            I have several hundred pounds of metallic weapon outside known as a car and making a human into roadkill isn't exactly rocket science. The country is welcome to start an anti-automobile lobby any time now.

            NOTE:

            Running people over is not advisable. It's normally immoral and almost always pisses off police. Plus there are more surefire ways to kill people with or without a gun but I prefer to avoid running through theoretical methods to commit murder at the moment.
            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


            Comment

              #7
              Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

              I have yet to own a gun due to expense, but I'm not above having one and probably would feel safer with a shot gun tucked away. Yes I know martial arts (does help in the subway) and a breaker bar in the car, but robbers often have fire arms and gun has the advantage at a distance...

              People who are off enough to kill a bunch of people will do so with any weapon from a large rock to a bomb, regulation of the weapons are not an answer to the question, just a faulty band-aid. Obviously those who have those tendencies need to be in psychiatric therapy of sorts to be able to not act upon impulses.
              -=Ex Ignorantia Ad Sapientiam; E Luce Ad Tenebras=-

              My art and writing http://khaotyk-artwerx.tk/
              (whole site is marked adult, the adult and gore sections are in their own section so you can opt not to view them, adult and/or gore stories are marked with an *)

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                [quote author=KashakuTatsu link=topic=1385.msg28404#msg28404 date=1294930566]
                I have yet to own a gun due to expense, but I'm not above having one and probably would feel safer with a shot gun tucked away. Yes I know martial arts (does help in the subway) and a breaker bar in the car, but robbers often have fire arms and gun has the advantage at a distance...

                People who are off enough to kill a bunch of people will do so with any weapon from a large rock to a bomb, regulation of the weapons are not an answer to the question, just a faulty band-aid. Obviously those who have those tendencies need to be in psychiatric therapy of sorts to be able to not act upon impulses.
                [/quote]

                This is true Timmithy Mcvaye (sp) used fertializer and desial fule to kill.
                Where I live a simple glass bottle filled with gas and a rag are often used as an effective way to kill.

                I have taught many people how to shoot firearms, Shotguns, rifles, and pistols . Never had one person do anything bad with one ever. I did have one woman use here shotgun to stop a guy who was beatting his girlfriend head aganist the curb in front of her house though.
                I myself like target shooting (the paper kind ) as this is a skill you have to work at keeping. This means practising often.
                I'm glad to see people speaking up form both sides of the issue. I did not intend this to be a one sided debate.
                Gargoyles watch over me...I can hear them snicker in the dark.


                Pull the operating handle (which protrudes from the right side of the receiver) smartly to the rear and release it.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                  I wouldn't own a gun, and I'm glad my country has stricter gun laws.

                  That being said, (thanks largely in part to this forum) I can understand why Americans feel the way they do.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                    I like guns - some of my best friends are guns... (Monk taught me how to shoot them ).

                    I don't have much (read "zero&quot faith in any stats that are being passed around on either side of the gun argument because I've seen far too many directly contradictory, stupidly or intentionally misinterpreted, inappropriately presented, and just plain crappy stats coming from both sides.

                    For me, it comes down to just what Medusa and Masked One pointed out - if a freakin' loony wants to take out a bunch of people in a crowd, he or she will do it, with or without a gun. It doesn't take a whole lot of smarts, planning, or skills to make up a Molotov Cocktail and toss it into a gathering...

                    It's not the weapon. It's the mind that uses it.

                    If you think we live in dangerous times now, you should have been around back in "the good old days" before firearms were common. The year 1100 wasn't a particularly safe time for the average person in Europe to be wandering around late at night alone...
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                      London ... Whitechapel District ... 1888 ... Jack the Ripper ... Weapon of choice=blade ... Weapons available=revolver, knife, sword, barbed wire, machine gun, ball point pen, rifle, bayonet, rock, brick, rope, fingers ...
                      I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


                      Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

                      The Chief nodded in agreement.

                      The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

                      The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

                      Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."
                      ​



                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                        [quote author=magusjinx link=topic=1385.msg28566#msg28566 date=1294963610]
                        London ... Whitechapel District ... 1888 ... Jack the Ripper ... Weapon of choice=blade ... Weapons available=revolver, knife, sword, barbed wire, machine gun, ball point pen, rifle, bayonet, rock, brick, rope, fingers ...
                        [/quote]
                        Eden..weapon of choice..well I have no idea how Cain slayed Abel. :P
                        Satan is my spirit animal

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                          Just goes to show ya ... If someone is gonna kill, then they are gonna use whatever weapon they can get a hold of and feel comfortable using ... The person is doing the killing ... So kill the person ... Public hanging ... Works for me ... Televised especially to all the prisons ... Let's see how many repeat offenders there are ...
                          I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


                          Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

                          The Chief nodded in agreement.

                          The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

                          The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

                          Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."
                          ​



                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                            [quote author=magusjinx link=topic=1385.msg28642#msg28642 date=1294980959]
                            Just goes to show ya ... If someone is gonna kill, then they are gonna use whatever weapon they can get a hold of and feel comfortable using ... The person is doing the killing ... So kill the person ... Public hanging ... Works for me ... Televised especially to all the prisons ... Let's see how many repeat offenders there are ...
                            [/quote]
                            All joking aside. I know here because of that Hollywood shootout all cops and literally robbers style..they changed the law on the limit a magazine could hold. In Arizona it seems a 30 clip magazine is legal to use. The point being made was he didn't have to stop to reload. And if he had to...maybe there would have been a chance to change the course of things? I dunno. I also heard gun laws there are very different.
                            Satan is my spirit animal

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Arizona gunman and gun rights

                              He did actually have to reload, he was just wrestling with 4 people at the time. It didn't work real well for him. As a practical issue though, it was a pre-meditated assault far as I've seen. There are ways to work around the disadvantages of a smaller clip. I'm very thankful for about three things from what I've seen so far

                              1) His primary target seems to have been Giffords and he left openings so that he could get to her. Had he just wanted to kill people, well that would have been very bad (or not, I may be giving him too much credit for intellect).

                              2) There were [urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12154398]people[/url] in the crowd gutsy enough to attack the bastard.

                              3) The spring failed when he did manage to reload his weapon.
                              life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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