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UK Votes to Leave the EU

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    #31
    Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

    Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    See, this is how it is here! Some states always talk about seceding, yet they need Federal aid all the time, and have plenty of people on welfare, etc. Those are the biggest Trump supporters. The cognitive dissonance is beyond astounding.
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    Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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      #32
      Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

      Well, this is sure interesting, particularly if it's something you can expect over there as a result... http://www.thelocal.no/20160623/surp...place-for-food
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #33
        Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

        I'm a little bit alarmed at all the salty people on facebook and twitter that are lashing out against democracy and seemingly advocating for elitism.

        Saying things like: "We should't be able to vote on something as important as this." "The old and uneducated shouldn't be allowed to vote." "Democracy is a failed system."

        Coming from people that I thought were reasonable. Then again, the very system they are criticizing would keep them from doing anything about it.
        Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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          #34
          Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

          People are saying horrible things. I'm really not happy. Like I said here and have said on Facebook. . WHERE WAS THIS PASSION WHEN IT MATTERED? No one was talking about Brexit. Not here, not on fb.. they were sharing pictures of their kids and sharing pics of themselves pouting in the mirror, or boasting about meaningless sh*t. Then today it's all 'oh how could this have happened? The world has ended...' you know why? Because those of us on the fence only had the media to rely on and both sides were weak. Both sides ran negative campaigns about why NOT to vote for the alternative and used speculation and scare tactics. Many like me could have gone either way and could easily have been swayed if people had just stepped away from their webcams and posted their arguments BEFORE we went to the frigging booths yesterday. But no.. they saved it so they could get all p*ssy today when their words make absolutely no difference.

          Human beings are useless, ignorant, vacuous sacks of meat.
          夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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            #35
            Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

            I deliberately didn't say much about the referendum anywhere. I believe in the importance of voting, but I also don't feel it's up to me to tell others how I think they should vote. Ever. And certainly not on facebook. I actually saw people asking 'How should I vote?' or saying things like 'I want the truth' but refusing to look at various links.

            So for me, all I would say is 'Vote.' I may not agree with your choice, but I think the most important thing is to vote.

            And remember - democracy is a dangerous beast...
            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


            Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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              #36
              Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

              Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
              I deliberately didn't say much about the referendum anywhere. I believe in the importance of voting, but I also don't feel it's up to me to tell others how I think they should vote. Ever. And certainly not on facebook. I actually saw people asking 'How should I vote?' or saying things like 'I want the truth' but refusing to look at various links.

              So for me, all I would say is 'Vote.' I may not agree with your choice, but I think the most important thing is to vote.

              And remember - democracy is a dangerous beast...
              ...it's why the US still has the Electoral College (for better or worse) that it's never bothered to get rid of.

              True Democracy is nothing but mob rule, and the mob is just as much of a fickle and fearsome tyrant as any despot. We've never had it, and I surely don't want it. I'll take the liberalesque stagnancy of divided representative government before populist regressive conservativism (and I don't trust the far left either, though most Connies here are so far in the weeds they'd easily think I'm far left) in any form, any day. I figure I'm in the good company of the people that started this government in the first place.

              But would agree with the rest. I believe in telling people to vote, not how to vote. And when it's someone else's country, I'm not sure ita much my business to comment too much beforehand.

              I hope it works...they have two years before it goes into effect, and that's after they initiate the process, right? Which won't happen til the new PM?

              Technically could this still not happen? How binding is it truly?
              Last edited by thalassa; 24 Jun 2016, 14:16.
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                #37
                Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                I'd much rather have mob rule, than corporate rule. From what I can tell, Brexit could not be ratified but that'd do nothing good. "Wake the sleeping giant" and all that.
                Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                  #38
                  Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                  There are people who vote with no idea what's going on. A woman I know says her husband doesn't let her watch the news, etc., because it upsets her, and I know she votes however he, or people at church, tell her to.
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                  Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                    #39
                    Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                    Firstly, sorry for flipping out a bit. I do that sometimes if I see something that challenges my rose-tinted view of the world. I saw friends and family turn on one another viciously and it frightened me. I'm a cat, so I start spitting and growling when I'm scared.

                    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                    Technically could this still not happen? How binding is it truly?
                    Well Brussels is putting pressure on us to activate Article 50 (of the Lisbon Treaty), which is the official point from which negotiations will begin in preparation for exit. As far as I understand it, at that point it's pretty much no return. From their point of view, the sooner we know where we stand, the sooner stability can return. If out is out, then this would benefit us too of course.

                    However, there is the possibility that we'll rush through a general election. If a party promises to go against the decision of the referendum then there is of course the chance they could get into power and attempt to slam the breaks on this, which I believe could be why despite the pressure from Europe, Cameron has refused to activate Article 50.

                    The problem is that people will be forced to choose between voting for a party who's politics they disagree with but that support their views on Europe, or voting for a party they prefer despite that amounting to going against their views on eu membership.

                    It would change the political landscape of the UK forever.

                    I think this is why labour are trying to get rid of Corbin. They've called for a vote of no confidence and I believe it's because they know he'd put of potential tory voters who could vote labour in order to overturn the brexit decision. I'm only speculating of course but it sure looks that way.

                    I was on the fence and few of my personal reasons for wanting to stay in were ever touched on by either side. The slip the day before by a German economist that admitted they couldn't afford to lose free trade with us is what swayed me back to 50/50. I read that as an admission that we could negotiate access to free trade with member states or even stay within the single market which would of course mean people from within the eu would still be able to come here to work and vice versa.

                    My main reason for wanting to leave was the fact that despite our size we were one of only 3 member states paying more to the EU than we got back. EU money funds some wonderful projects here, including the restoration of the park I help look after, but if we didn't send so much to Brussels, we could have more money to spend on such things.. the counter argument being that we'd have to trust the government not go slash funding altogether of course.

                    I still don't want to keep losing out financially and as Angela Merkel admitted herself, the EU meddles too much, which is why I don't regret how I voted. I do regret the aftermath though. I didn't expect everyone to be so spiteful to one another, although I understand that like me, they were just scared. So maybe I would vote for a party promising to halt the exit should it happen. Unless that party was led by Corbin. He'd do more harm than leaving the EU could.
                    夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                      #40
                      Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                      I'm a great supporter of Corbyn. If Labour force him out I'm off to join the Welsh Nationalists.
                      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                        #41
                        Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU



                        This would be laughable of it wasn't so serious an issue...

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                          #42
                          Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                          Absolutely. Nothing like a good dose of stupid straight after a referendum...
                          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                            #43
                            Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                            Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                            I'm a great supporter of Corbyn. If Labour force him out I'm off to join the Welsh Nationalists.
                            I don't agree with the underhanded way they're using something that wasn't his fault as a reason to oust him, but he's not going to win over any disgruntled tory voters so i think some see him as a guaranteed way to ensure were stuck with the tories after the next general election. For me, his politics would be great if we really lived in the cutesy fluffy world I like your imagine we do, but we don't and that makes his views on the military dangerous. He'd stop us needlessly getting involved in conflicts that are none of our business, but also strip us of our ability to defend ourselves. We live in a world where there are people who mean us harm regardless of how shiney we wish the world was.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                            http://www.news.com.au/world/brexit-...f86f626592ba27

                            This would be laughable of it wasn't so serious an issue...
                            This is something that has upset me too. Looking at the bitching on fb, many outers seemed to assume this was a vote about controlling immigration. There was even a documentary on BBC 2 that showed you exactly what goes on in the EU, interviewing people who work there and explaining what it does and why so it's not like they didn't try to educate.

                            The fact that people didn't even understand the question is frightening.
                            夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                              #44
                              Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                              I'm friends with Almost on FB, and she posted something about "if you are undecided, vote to stay, because we can always change our mind later" (paraphrased) that I saw the day before the vote. I think, looking at the news, more people probably should have heard that.
                              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                                #45
                                Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                                Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                                I'm friends with Almost on FB, and she posted something about "if you are undecided, vote to stay, because we can always change our mind later" (paraphrased) that I saw the day before the vote. I think, looking at the news, more people probably should have heard that.
                                I saw that too although I can't remember who's page it was on. Strangely enough that was why I was going to go with remain. It really was the leak from Germany that swayed me. It made it seem like much less of a gamble. I also honestly expected that when it came to the crunch most would vote remain because as a general rule we don't like change here. That's why we negotiated to keep the pound when we entered in the first place.

                                Even in the aftermath, I still think people are overreacting. The doomsday scenarios they're describing seem extremely unlikely, especially in light of the fact we already had special concessions within the EU to begin with. Only time will tell now of course, but everyone needs me to be right on this.
                                夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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