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Thread: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    (I do love the 2nd definitions...)

    On one hand, I think it would be awesome if it was real. The diversity of early Christianity was pretty amazing. On the other hand, it wouldn't do anything to change things. Believers (either way) don't actually care about the facts. They arrange their facts to suit their beliefs, and not the other way around.
    A second definition?? Looked it up again! And Occam's razor. Must admit, there's a lot of fishy circumstances but nothing empirical(?).

    Saying believers arrange facts to suit their beliefs... Hm. Yes I'd have to agree with that. I really don't want to, but the results (millions of interpretations of the Bible resulting in doctrinal differences) say otherwise. Is like to hear more people confess that they really can't know for sue, they just believe this.... That's closer really to what every person on a spiritual quest does. Then maybe we could see more common ground emerging.

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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    There are known Gnostic texts that place Mary as the reciever of a secret teaching (Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Thomas, both from the Nag Hammadi find), but they are non-canonical - Gnostic gospels (with the possible exception of the Gospel of John, which is very gnostic-like) are considered heretical.

    And the known history of early Christianity does have women playing a role equal to men - early Christians drew lots to determine who would serve as priest, so, yeah, it wouldn't make much difference.
    Lots were drawn to appoint Barnabus as the 12th Apostle after Judas's suicide... Then Saul converted and it always seemed to me that he should have been the 12th. Though he himself rebuked other believers for saying so. But this is a good example of 'suit yourself' beliefs that Thalassa mentioned below. Divination, though forbidden, is sanctioned in this circumstance...

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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    There is a lot of evidence even in the "accepted" New Testament the Jesus (Yesuah) was married. In those days in order to be a Rabbi one had to be married and usually that meant with children. I have heard the arguments that it was just a title that his friends used for him but that would have gone completely against the Jewish faith and tradition of the time. To be a Rabbi one must be a teacher and a teacher must know life and religion.

    What really matters in all of this is that the Christians have their beliefs and the Bible serves as proof. The way it is interpreted by the church is what people in the church are taught. Since it is "The Written Word of God" it provides all the proof they need. If it doesn't fit, or you can't find an answer you get told that "some things have to be taken as faith.

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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsFriend View Post
    In those days in order to be a Rabbi one had to be married and usually that meant with children.
    Do you remember where you learned this, Dragonsfriend? I've not heard it said before, but that doesn't mean much! I did a quick search and could only glean that it was encouraged, but not a requirement.

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    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    This idea that rabbis had to be married, that Jesus was called rabbi, and ergo Jesus had to be married, is a myth proposed by those who want to perpetuate their Married Jesus myth.

    Frankly I couldn't give a monkey's uncle if Jesus existed, let alone was married, so I don't have a dog in this fight. However, not only was the term "rabbi" not formalized in this era, but there is absolutely no requirement of people called rabbi to be married. Indeed, many who would be called rabbi by standard today, the pharisees, were not called rabbi. It does not stand to reason that Jesus had to fit the modern idea of a rabbi, let alone be married.

    Ask your local synagogue if you will doubt this, rather than the internet!
    Last edited by Briton; 26 Jun 2016 at 02:19.
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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    Quote Originally Posted by Briton View Post

    However, not only was the term "rabbi" not formalized in this era,

    Ask your local synagogue if you will doubt this, rather than the internet!
    We have no religious institutions other than Christian ones in my town unfortunately. I also read that Rabbi was a modern term not used in Jesus' day while searching about marriage. However, I know the two Jewish sages Hillel and Shammai are considered Rabbis and they existed from 50 BCE -30 CE. A little of Hillel and Shammai in context of Jewish history http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48943176.html?mobile=yes. This article indicates Rabbis were in place as early as 273 BCE. Please note the credentials of the article's author in the bio at the bottom of the page. A little more on the historical use of the word Rabbi can be found here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...sm/Rabbis.html

    I'd like to make another thread about Jesus the historical figure and scholars beliefs about who he was. If anyone wants to jump in before me, feel free. Just remember to cite your sources even if it's not online.

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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    In ancient Israel titles were hereditary but required some training for recognition. You could only become a priest if you were born of the family of Eli but not all born of that house were priests.
    Look to the Talmud as it states that one must stand in the presence of a Rabbi and or his spouse.
    The opinions of the Rabbinical Council is where the Talmud and Torah are interpreted for the meanings and definitions within Jewish law today. Like any institution definitions change and opinions vary over time.
    Last edited by DragonsFriend; 26 Jun 2016 at 07:35.

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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    This is going a bit askew, but when speaking of the Talmud there are always three things to consider:

    1. Which Talmud?

    2. The Talmud wasn't translated into English until the 1930s-40s (so it makes sense they'd use modern words and concepts)

    3. The first Talmud was compiled in the 4th century and the second about 500 years later


    (The local synagogue has always been my OT question headquarters)


    When it comes to Jesus, I'm with Briton in that, "Frankly I couldn't give a monkey's uncle if Jesus existed, let alone was married, so I don't have a dog in this fight." But I happen to find religion in general interesting, particularly the evolution of religion and religious concepts...therefore, the Christian split is one I've devoted quite a bit of time in inquiry to. And in that regard, there is a lot of very suspect Biblical scholarship that floats around the Pagan world, that also qualify as beliefs before facts. It is unfortunate, but it seems to be a lingering response to the antipathy that many Pagans have towards the (often) more conservative Christian traditions they have left (and in some cases, escaped in quite harrowing ways). The other problem that I think often results in belief before fact with regard to Pagan commentary about Christians is an insecurity that leads many to think that by calling Christian claims into question or error they give themselves legitimacy. Really, though, both just serve to reinforce some of the negative stereotypes about Pagans among non-Pagans (whether they are Christian or not).
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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    Out of sheer curiosity...what man wasn't married during Jesus' time? What exactly is so bad about a man being married on Earth? It's not like he was shacking it up with some harlot.


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    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife': Insane backstory

    One could be a rabbi without being ordained, and rabbi Ben Azzai was an unmarried rabbi, albeit not ordained. He was, however, highly held.

    Furthermore, rabbi Humnuna was ordained and it was remarked that he was unmarried. There was resistance to his ordination, possibly due to his celibacy, but never any mention of his marrying. Of course, there is a dearth of detail in the lives of early rabbis, so it is hard to know exactly who did what. But celibacy was not unheard of.
    I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
    Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
    But that day you know I left my money
    And I thought of you only
    All that copper glowing fine

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