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    Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

    Last weekend, I was introduced to Kirtan. I went to the workshop because I was interested in learning from another point of view (other than Christianity) how to use music as a spiritual practise.

    I am entranced. We sang with this version of Deva Premal's Gayatri mantra. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arNh-Jchevk
    Absolutely incredible. At some point, I could almost enter a trance state. There was something so very special about chanting ancient sounds into the space. I really can't effectively put it in to words, but it's as though these sounds have a life of their own and have the power to pull me into another stream of consciousness.

    #2
    Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

    Hmmm,had not heard of this,BUT it reminded me of Tibetan chants and Mongolian throat singing.

    Tibetan chanting.


    Perhaps not for everybody,but for me good for meditation.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    sigpic

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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      #3
      Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

      Originally posted by anunitu View Post
      Hmmm,had not heard of this,BUT it reminded me of Tibetan chants and Mongolian throat singing.

      Tibetan chanting.


      Perhaps not for everybody,but for me good for meditation.
      Definitely not for me! Well, to listen to anyway.

      I like Kirtan as it mixes Western music with the ancient Sanskrit mantras, so it's easy on my ears.

      I'd love to know if there are any Hebraic chants that are used in worship/devotion.

      One of my friends is a sound engineer and says he knows he's putting on a good show for his audience when he can feel it in his body. I have also heard a rumour that good DJ's for clubs will pick songs that resonate at the same frequency of the sex organs or the heart. It's all reminiscent to me of the story of creation and how God uses the spoken word to create. There's a link there I'm not fully comprehending as yet.

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        #4
        Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

        If you mean by Hebraic chants hebrew,you might mean perhaps Jewish "Cantors"

        Here on youtube.
        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




        sigpic

        my new page here,let me know what you think.


        nothing but the shadow of what was

        witchvox
        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

          Originally posted by anunitu View Post
          If you mean by Hebraic chants hebrew,you might mean perhaps Jewish "Cantors"
          Yeah... it's just not the same, is it? lol.

          The Mantras offer profound simplicity. The example you posted sounds more like something only a trained person can do.
          Last edited by Azvanna; 20 Sep 2016, 15:40.

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            #6
            Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

            In my mind these types of expression are less about the "Music" and more in the breath patterns effect on the "Singer" themselves. The breathing patterns can effect your brain in some ways. Because you are so concentrated on the "Singing" you are using the sounds to help control the breathing cadence.

            Sounds and music have always been a part of spiritual practice it seems forever.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

              Originally posted by Azvanna View Post

              I am entranced. We sang with this version of Deva Premal's Gayatri mantra. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arNh-Jchevk
              Absolutely incredible.
              I hadn't heard that rendition before, but it's very nice. I have a few recordings of hers. This is my favorite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDnamSM3Z3s
              it's as though these sounds have a life of their own
              They do! Sound is energy, it is the energy of the universe. Hindu belief holds that the universe was created by sound. OM is that sound. That's why Vedic mantras are so highly revered. :smile:

              If you are interested in learning more, let me know. I don't want to hijack the thread right off the bat.
              śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
              śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

                Originally posted by Thorbjorn View Post

                If you are interested in learning more, let me know. I don't want to hijack the thread right off the bat.
                Thank you for the translation! I am interested in whatever you have to say on using sound in your practise. I wasn't asking questions because I'm not sure what to ask yet! So just chime in with anything

                I've seen a few different translations of Gayatri Mantra since but the one we were given in the workshop is:
                Hail to Deity!
                Like the Sun, excellent, radiant, honourable, giving life,
                providing safe passage and inspiration,
                and speaking guidance.

                The other Mantra we sang with was Om Puurnam Adah, which is profound in its simplicity. i"m sure you know it, but I'll post it for others:

                The outter world is perfect, the inner world is perfect,
                from the perfect springs the perfect,
                Take from the perfect, and only the perfect remains.

                But of course, we sang in Sanskrit.

                Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                In my mind these types of expression are less about the "Music" and more in the breath patterns effect on the "Singer" themselves. The breathing patterns can effect your brain in some ways. Because you are so concentrated on the "Singing" you are using the sounds to help control the breathing cadence.

                Sounds and music have always been a part of spiritual practice it seems forever.
                Really good point! A perspective I didn't consider.
                Last edited by Azvanna; 29 Sep 2016, 13:25.

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                  #9
                  Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

                  I'd never even heard of Kirtan but you've piqued my interest so thank you for starting this thread! I often find myself humming or making vocalisations when when meditating to certain tunes. It feels involuntary, especially as I'm often in a trance or at least alpha state when it happens. I guess there is just something very natural and soothing about the use of the voice in the trance state. It's definitely something to add to my lists of things to explore further.
                  夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                    #10
                    Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

                    Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                    Thank you for the translation! I am interested in whatever you have to say on using sound in your practise. I wasn't asking questions because I'm not sure what to ask yet! So just chime in with anything

                    I've seen a few different translations of Gayatri Mantra since but the one we were given in the workshop is:
                    Hail to Deity!
                    Like the Sun, excellent, radiant, honourable, giving life,
                    providing safe passage and inspiration,
                    and speaking guidance.
                    There are many, many translations, all of which pretty much give the same idea. So yours is not far off. Sanskrit is a highly inflected language. It lends itself to structured poetry, as well as being ambiguous at times.

                    You'll notice that with the exception of om bhur bhuvah svaha, there are 3 lines of 8 syllables. That is called the gayatri meter. There are many, many "gayatri mantras" for all the deities. They are used as prayers, asking for the deity's blessings for illumination. Many other shlokas (verses from hymns) use the gayatri meter. It is a way of keeping fidelity when orally transmitting the Vedas and other scriptures.

                    The use of sound is very important, because it is energy, though the gods are beyond language. It's the sound. When you go from temple to temple, you will hear the priests using the same chanting meter. I try to do the same, though some of my mantras and shlokas (verses from scriptures) fall a bit short.

                    The other Mantra we sang with was Om Puurnam Adah, which is profound in its simplicity. i"m sure you know it, but I'll post it for others:

                    The outter world is perfect, the inner world is perfect,
                    from the perfect springs the perfect,
                    Take from the perfect, and only the perfect remains.

                    But of course, we sang in Sanskrit.
                    Was it this one? It's actually quite long. It's from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. Sometimes just a verse or three are taken from a hymn and recited, chanted, sung.

                    oḿ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaḿ
                    pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate
                    pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya
                    pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate
                    oṃ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ


                    Another mantra used frequently is

                    asato mā sad gamaya,
                    tamaso mā jyotir gamaya,
                    mṛtyor māmṛtaṃ gamaya
                    oṃ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ
                    oṃ tryambakaṃ yajāmahe
                    sugandhiṃ puṣṭivardhanam

                    urvārukamiva bandhanān
                    mṛtyormukṣīya mā'mṛtāt

                    oṃ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ

                    We meditate on the Three-eyed Reality (reference to Lord Shiva's internal 3rd eye)
                    Which permeates and nourishes all like a fragrance.
                    May we be liberated from death for the sake of immortality,
                    Even as the cucumber is severed from bondage to the creeper.

                    I hope this helps. As you are exposed to other things, please feel free to ask about anything.
                    Last edited by Thorbjorn; 30 Sep 2016, 08:44.
                    śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

                      Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                      It's all reminiscent to me of the story of creation and how God uses the spoken word to create. There's a link there I'm not fully comprehending as yet.

                      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


                      Well that or I can pull quotes from CS Lewis but John 1:1 is faster.
                      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                        #12
                        Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

                        I've not specifically heard of or explored Kirtan before, but using sound and music for trance is a very common practice for me. Most shamanic traditions, both indigenous and neo-, have sound as one of the pathways to reaching a journey state... drums, rattles, percussion instruments or voice. Usually the voice will be wordless chants and noises, but it depends on the tradition. Personally, I use a drum, because I find my own voice a bit dissonant and it's distracting.

                        There is also a precedent for using voice and chanting in Northern paths. The Lore has stories of the Volva having handmaidens who chant a special chant to put her into an oracular state (the lady of the homestead could also do this if she new the words). Modern seidhr workers will often use chants to help them reach a trance state.

                        There is anecdotal evidence of modern NT spirit workers being given songs and tunes by the spirits they work with for the purposes of devotion and invocation. While it's not explicitly supported in the Lore, it makes sense given the information we have about the practices of seidhr, about the neighbouring Saami shamans, and about the importance of poetry and the craft of the skald. Putting it all together would suggest that the voice, storytelling and chanting was important in the Viking Age, and possible prior to that (many NTers have a focus on pre-Viking-Age Europe and Scandinavia).

                        Modern rune workers (including me) have a chant system for invoking runes, too. I'm not 100% sold on the claim that this is a traditional practice (as I've not found evidence of it)... it seems to be a relatively modern practice stemming from the runic revival, where some Eastern techniques were blending with European traditions. But it can be a very effective and profound practice.

                        So yes, I think that sound... or perhaps more accurately... resonance, can be an incredibly powerful tool for reaching trance states and all the practices that we do while in that state of consciousness.

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                          #13
                          Re: Kirtan and using voice in meditation.

                          Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                          There is also a precedent for using voice and chanting in Northern paths. The Lore has stories of the Volva having handmaidens who chant a special chant to put her into an oracular state (the lady of the homestead could also do this if she new the words). Modern seidhr workers will often use chants to help them reach a trance state.
                          There is the story of Groa singing charms to attempt to remove the shards of whetstone from Thor's forehead. So if singing/chanting is used for a god, it must be pretty powerful.

                          Back to Hindu/Indian thought: Here's something that may be of interest. It references John 1:1 also, as MaskedOne did:

                          It may be my age, but those moments when a piece of music really hits me in the solar plexus seem to get rarer and rarer. But during my rec...




                          I know that is all getting a bit metaphysical and mystical, but it shows how seriously music is taken.
                          Last edited by Thorbjorn; 03 Oct 2016, 05:48.
                          śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                          śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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