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  • #31
    Re: Shadow Goverment

    I think sometimes it depends on the problem. When people are oppressing minorities with violence, then for someone to call for peace is shorthand for 'Stop the violence, this is wrong.' It doesn't necessarily mean 'Stop showing the violence because it makes me feel uncomfortable; let me continue living in my bubble.' (mind you, sometimes that is exactly what they mean.)

    I would agree that many people do like to present themselves as enlightened and liberal (and I'm not entirely sure this means the same thing in the US as in the UK but I may be wrong) when in fact they are anything but. That for me is the real problem. And as I quoted in an earlier post, 'All that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.'

    Quite WHY they do nothing is another matter, but it happens a lot. And it happens across the classes too. Partly I suspect this is because those who rule us are using divide and conquer tactics. Instead of singling out the culprits and dealing with them, an awful lot of people stay back in the shadows waiting to see who is going to win.

    The problem with riots of course is not that they happen in the first place, (and frankly I'm surprised they don't happen more) it's that they often lose their direction, either because criminal elements join in, or because they have been infiltrated by agents provocateurs.

    People need to develop their critical thinking much better. They need to organise and not allow the divide and conquer methods to work on them.
    Last edited by Tylluan Penry; 02 Jul 2017, 02:22.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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    • #32
      Re: Shadow Goverment

      Privilege, yes. I had this conversation with my aunt the other day. She thinks everyone should "live in the now" and visualize themselves happy all the time, and everything will be fine. Obviously this comes from a person who's never had the wolf at the door or even has a clue. This is the guy in Titanic who dressed up in top hat and tails and ordered a brandy as the ship was sinking.

      Sure, we should enjoy the present, not waste our lives in anxiety and worry. But, without me typing all day, I think everybody here knows about responsibility and that we really don't just make life go the way we want all the time with no outside factors affecting our course.
      sigpic
      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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      • #33
        Re: Shadow Goverment

        The problem with resorting to violence is that its not pragmatic. Its not the violence itself that is the problem--there are times where violence may be acceptable, the problem is that the situations in which violence works (actually achieves its goals) are fairly constrained. Violent movements can produce change, but they need a certain critical mass before that violence is effective... Violence for violence's sake as mob anger or mob justice on the other hand, is generally put down.

        “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

        “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
        ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

        "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
        ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

        "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

        Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

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        • #34
          Re: Shadow Goverment

          The truth is we have to understand that violence is a tactic. Trotsky has a piece called "Why Marxists oppose individual terrorism."

          It is correct I don't support the shooting of Steve Scalise as the right move. It is incorrect that I view this a tragedy. I am not a moralist. These things are nuanced

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          • #35
            Re: Shadow Goverment

            I fall in with Thalassa on this. She has expressed it all more eloquently than I ever could. I do think there are times when violence is effective and the best choice. I just think that those times are limited. Do I think that it would be wonderful if we could just all get along? Of course I do. But I see human nature; I see reality. I just think most of the time violence is not strategically sound for accomplishing more than momentary mob satisfaction.

            Torture is a good way to get people to tell you what you want to hear, whether it is true or not. In the end it breaks not only the the tortured, but the torturer.

            The guy that rammed the crowd of Muslims in the UK? He did not advance life for himself, his family, or other non-Muslim Britons. He was just an angry man who reduced himself to a mass murderer.

            The man that shot Steve Scalise convinced himself that he was a martyr. In truth, he was just a man who had a history of violence, and wrapped himself in ideals as an excuse to escalate it. It happens on all sides.

            I also think we need to look at the sources of our information very, very carefully. It is important to know the difference between necessary action, and action that is masked as righteousness but is actually intended to benefit an oppressor. It happens more often than it doesn't.

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            • #36
              Re: Shadow Goverment

              New Jersey Homeland Security declares Antifa a terrorist organization.

              Rightly so, too: http://www.attacksontrumpsupporters.com/

              Extremism and terrorism must be opposed, if you think that far-left extremists will be satisfied with just punching Nazis then you'd be dead wrong. They'll go after the right wing in general, the centrists, and then they'll go after the left-wing moderates.

              If you hate the government, and think that there is no peaceful way to change it, then just leave. Vote with your feet. Certainly don't take it out on civilians, even if they are saying controversial things. Especially in a country that ostensibly has freedom of speech. The only time I'd say violence is justified is if the state is actively keeping you from leaving, and then only against the politicians and their muscle doing so.
              Last edited by Denarius; 03 Jul 2017, 11:50.
              Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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              • #37
                Re: Shadow Goverment

                OK my turn. I think the shadow government with make their next move very soon. The only reason they say quiet because America is on their defensed and Donald Trump haven't screw it up yet.

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                • #38
                  Re: Shadow Goverment

                  References on what you base your statements/claims please
                  MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                  all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                  NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                  don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                  sigpic

                  my new page here,let me know what you think.


                  nothing but the shadow of what was

                  witchvox
                  http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                  • #39
                    Re: Shadow Goverment

                    Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                    References on what you base your statements/claims please
                    Does intuition count?

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                    • #40
                      Re: Shadow Goverment

                      I don't really think so,if you wish to become a prophet,you need to have it come to pass more than a small number of times. I might predict aliens will pop out of a worm hole and consume the human race,but it makes a better SYFY movie idea,than an actual occurrence. BTW,the whole shadow government/deep State thing is a very recent thing.

                      See here.

                      You might go for the Bilderberg's,or the New world Order,or the reptilians or the Illuminati. Maybe you could follow the Anti-Christ thing,or the hollow earth idea,or even the chemtrails theory.

                      Lots of "theories" in our world,but very little facts to back them up.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      Perhaps a group ruled by Fu Manchu

                      This guy.


                      Or Professor James Moriarty,of Sherlock Holmes fame?

                      Do a search on the term,"The Yellow peril"

                      History is peppered with these ideas,the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" hoax from many years back.
                      Last edited by anunitu; 04 Jul 2017, 17:56.
                      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                      sigpic

                      my new page here,let me know what you think.


                      nothing but the shadow of what was

                      witchvox
                      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Shadow Goverment

                        Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                        Does intuition count?
                        No.

                        /10 char
                        “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

                        “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
                        ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

                        "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
                        ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

                        "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

                        Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Shadow Goverment

                          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                          No.

                          /10 char
                          Why not?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Shadow Goverment

                            Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                            Why not?
                            Intuition isn't evidence. It's a (questionably accurate) tool of interpretation. When people ask for evidence, they want something independently verifiable.

                            To put it differently, I trust my intuition more than I trust yours. If you want to sway my intuition then provide me with facts not feelings. Otherwise, your intuition can say whatever it wants but I'm gonna listen to mine.
                            "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
                            ―Thon

                            "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

                            Yoda

                            Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                            • #44
                              Re: Shadow Goverment

                              Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                              Intuition isn't evidence. It's a (questionably accurate) tool of interpretation. When people ask for evidence, they want something independently verifiable.

                              To put it differently, I trust my intuition more than I trust yours. If you want to sway my intuition then provide me with facts not feelings. Otherwise, your intuition can say whatever it wants but I'm gonna listen to mine.
                              Isn't that double standard?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Shadow Goverment

                                Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
                                Isn't that double standard?
                                You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
                                Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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