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Thread: Platonic Realism

  1. #11
    Sr. Member faye_cat's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Here, here Iris! Very good point.
    “I am Cat and I walk alone and all ways are the same to me.” ~Rudyard Kipling, The Cat Who Walks By Himself

  2. #12
    Bronze Member Bartmanhomer's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Why do I have a feeling that this thread is going to lead an argument?

  3. #13
    Member saura's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Science is not everything and our ancients did not arrived at these truths through science. They practiced theurgy which is still a rejected knowledge in western academia. We do not need science to prove our ideas we have other methods which works and has an efficacy on the empirical world. Those who can see the light will receive immortality while others will be left behind.

    Academics tend to look on 'esoteric', 'occult' or 'magical' beliefs with contempt, but are usually ignorant about the religious and philosophical traditions to which these terms refer, or their relevance to intellectual history. Wouter Hanegraaff tells the neglected story of how intellectuals since the Renaissance have tried to come to terms with a cluster of 'pagan' ideas from late antiquity that challenged the foundations of biblical religion and Greek rationality. Expelled from the academy on the basis of Protestant and Enlightenment polemics, these traditions have come to be perceived as the Other by which academics define their identity to the present day. Hanegraaff grounds his discussion in a meticulous study of primary and secondary sources, taking the reader on an exciting intellectual voyage from the fifteenth century to the present day and asking what implications the forgotten history of exclusion has for established textbook narratives of religion, philosophy and science.

    Read more at http://www.cambridge.org/gb/academic/subjects/religion/religion-general-interest/esotericism-and-academy-rejected-knowledge-western-culture#KG0Kf5wO97e78jKa.99

  4. #14
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    so,is this what you are trying to explain?


    - - - Updated - - -

    ou got this open in my mind again.DIG?



    - - - Updated - - -

    perhaps i was thinking of this??

    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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  5. #15
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Whenever someone says "all," "only," "always," or (of course) their opposites, as a statement of fact, I generally ignore whatever comes after. Generally speaking, such statements are wrong, either by virtue of an honest mistake, or an outright lie.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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  6. #16
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    This sounds familiar,does it not.

    Here.

    Adolf Hitler quotes (showing 1-30 of 364)
    “If you win, you need not have to explain...If you lose, you should not be there to explain!”
    ― Adolf Hitler
    tags: philosophy, war
    2197 likes
    Like
    “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”
    ― Adolf Hitler
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

  7. #17
    Member saura's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Quote Originally Posted by anunitu View Post
    so,is this what you are trying to explain?
    Yes, that post was written by me. Posting irrelevant material won't change anything. The world is (going to be) Mithraic irrespective of whether you like it or not.

    Buddhism, Catholicism and other countless sects of Christianity, Hinduism, Jainism, Islamism, Taoism, Secularism, Wiccanism etc are all false and we know that everyone hates us just like they hated the Gnostics. I know what you'll do next you'll post random pics of cats. I don't care if you're not interested, there are people out there who do.

  8. #18
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Quote Originally Posted by saura View Post

    Buddhism, Catholicism and other countless sects of Christianity, Hinduism, Jainism, Islamism, Taoism, Secularism, Wiccanism etc are all false
    Care to prove that to me?

    Also I saw you talking about "empirical evidence".
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Empirical evidence, also known as sensory experience, is the information received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and documentation of patterns and behavior through experimentation.
    The sensory experience part is only valid if it can be consistently reproduced and documented by any sane individual. Is this the case?
    Last edited by Sean R. R.; 21 Jul 2018 at 13:10.

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  9. #19
    Member saura's Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanRave View Post
    Care to prove that to me?
    The validity of Platonic realism implies that all other religions based on different philosophical views are false.

    Buddhism:

    The doctrine of Anatta by Buddha is at odds with Platonic philosophy and his philosophy was kicked out of India by Shankara in the 6th century when Buddhist monks lost out in their debates and being embarrassed committed suicide by jumping into wells.

    "No further special discussion is required. From whatever points of view the Buddhist systems are tested with regard to their plausibility, they cave in on all sides, like the walls of a well dug in sandy soil. [Buddhist philosophy] has, in fact, no foundation whatever to rest upon, and thus it is foolish to adopt it as a guide in the practical concerns of life. Moreover, the Buddha,3 by presenting three mutually contradictory systems of philosophy — teaching respectively the reality of the external world, the reality of consciousness-only, and general emptiness — has himself made it clear either that he was a man given to making incoherent assertions, or else that hatred of all beings moved him to propound absurd doctrines that would thoroughly confuse all who might take him seriously. Thus, the Buddha's doctrine must be entirely disregarded by all those who have a regard for their own happiness."

    - Shankara
    Christianity:

    How is Christianity is any way different from Platonism when its second founder, Paul of Tarsus has introduced the doctrine of mystery cults in every verse of the New Testament.

    "I found that whatever truth I had read [in the Platonists] was [in the writings of Paul] combined with the exaltation of thy grace.”
    - Saint Augustine
    I have to completely agree with Augustine here and we now know that Paul was a Gnostic.

    Hinduism:

    Since this religion does not have a clear cut definition of what its followers believe in I don't know what to refute.

    Taoism and Jainism fail to acknowledge the existence of an omnipotent anthropomorphic being which Plato identifies with the GOOD or The Sun.


    Also I saw you talking about "empirical evidence".

    The sensory experience part is only valid if it can be consistently reproduced and documented by any sane individual. Is this the case?
    I can give you many examples of indirect evidence for the existence of the divine light rays of Helios-Mithras but if you have to see him and his rays directly then you obviously have to experiment yourself with the Theurgical rituals.

    1. Astrology accurately predicts the events of ones life right from the time the soul comes out of the womb into the world till the time soul leaves the world. Science cannot even predict whether an electron will pass through one slit or the other. The science of astrology was bestowed to mankind by Helios.

    2. Rain making rituals have been documented to have efficacy through out history by Proclus, Julian the Theurgist and Agni Hotra rituals in the east.

    3. Yoga too has come down to us from the Sun. https://www.consciouslifestylemag.co...n-yoga-powers/

  10. #20
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: Platonic Realism

    Quote Originally Posted by saura View Post
    The validity of Platonic realism implies that all other religions based on different philosophical views are false.
    Wait so all you're saying is "My religion is true, therefore others are false." That is the least useful explanation ever.

    What about Satanism? How can you disprove that what I have seen and experienced is false, even though you have no way of disproving my own internal knowledge? You can try to explain it, of course, just as Christianity explained many psychiatric problems with possession.

    All you're saying that if you are a follower of your religion, then you have to consider all others as false.

    Astrology doesn't accurately predict nothing, as life isn't predictable. Maybe you can guess a possible outcome based on probability, but I don't believe in fate nor destiny, only the chaos and rules that govern it.

    Who documented rain rituals? On what basis?

    The article about yoga, at the very end, claims scientific proof without really citing any of the findings, that is fishy enough for me to disregard the whole thing as unverifiable.

    I don't know man, you say the truth will come out eventually, so why bother trying to spread it?

    Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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