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Thread: Humans should stop producing

  1. #21
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    1) Whoever said that I thought instinct needs to be suppressed? I used the word "overcome". There's a difference. Gain mastery of your instincts, or surely they will master you. If we never controlled ourselves, and just ran on pure instinct, we would have gone extinct a long time ago.

    2) Whoever said that I thought sex being pleasureable was a problem? It's simply a factual contributing factor to the rapid population growth.

    3) I think it stems from the fear of death and a desire to be immortalized in some form, but you could be right about it also being related to the first reason; like most things in Nature, it's likely multi-faceted.

    4) I was referring to my own country in regards to tax deductions; other countries sometimes have other financial incentives for having children, such as in Russia, and as you mentioned, child slavery is another incentive in other countries as well. It's simply a possible reason for why people may choose to reproduce; an effort to answer the OPs original question.

    5) No; you weren't brought into this world to worry about everyone else. You probably weren't brought into this world for any particularly special reason whatsoever. If your content to only ever worry about yourself, then more power to you I suppose. Personally I care about my home and my neighbors though, and would like to do what I can to help out; it makes me feel good inside, and it makes the world a bit of a better place too. Imagine if everyone cared.

    I personally feel the world is overpopulated, AND mismanaged hahaha. I honestly want a solar flare to knock us all back to medieval times. Just to see what happens. I imagine the proverbial wheat would be separated from the proverbial chaff pretty quickly hahaha....and the population would be re-stabilized as well because all the idiots would end up dying of starvation or killing each other off as they loot each other's resources, because they're incapable of surviving on their lonesome, because they've always been taken care of by the government, and never bothered educating themselves, because it was too boring to them, and because their government never taught any of the necessary subjects for survival in school. Poor souls. Just the circle of life I suppose; only the strong survive.

    PS: There's these new places called orphanges where you can actually adopt existing children without bringing forth your own into the world; orphanages also aren't the best places for children; a lot are abused and neglected. If I ever want kids, personally, I'd rather adopt; I'd be doing at least two good things with just one act; sounds like some nice karma to me if nothing else.

    --Sollomyn

    - - - Updated - - -



    Same here; pro-choice...in the sense I believe people should have the right to choose for themselves whether or not to have children; I don't feel it is the Government's place to say one CAN'T have any children (or NEEDS to have children). I'm not an advocate of abortion though; I personally feel that attacking human life is wrong, and that if one doesn't want a baby, they shouldn't have unprotected sex; not kill the baby when it starts growing inside them after unprotected sex.
    1) "Overcoming" instincts is indistinguishable from suppressing them. Explain to me that difference for I don't see it. Instincts don't "master" you, don't equate them with compulsions. Instincts are a very intricate network of functions and reactions that can be trained to enhance them and let them take over. Instincts need to be properly used, not suppressed.

    2) Well you're equating pleasurable sex to rapid population growth, and you see rapid population growth as a problem, therefore it is implied you see sex being pleasurable as a problem. It just struck me as A=B, B=C so A=C.

    3) I understand what you mean. However I always saw it not as fear for death, but rather acceptance and realization of it, coupled with a desire to leave something behind. Someone who fears death would rather try to do something to prevent it, instead of think beyond his own death.

    4) If you're referring to your country only (or let's say, countries with similar policies), then it's not an argument as for why overpopulation is a thing. In fact, countries where tax reductions apply for having children are usually countries where there's an aging demographic and not enough births to support the aging population. So it is kind of a response to a certain kind of under-population (of young people). This clearly shows that underpopulation and overpopulation are localized problems, further supporting my point about it being a managing issue, not an actual numbers kind of issue.

    5) If it didn't make you feel any good... Would you still do it?

    There is no internet in medieval times Also, things would probably return to our current civilization scheme anyway.

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  2. #22

    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean R. R. View Post
    1) "Overcoming" instincts is indistinguishable from suppressing them. Explain to me that difference for I don't see it. Instincts don't "master" you, don't equate them with compulsions. Instincts are a very intricate network of functions and reactions that can be trained to enhance them and let them take over. Instincts need to be properly used, not suppressed.

    2) Well you're equating pleasurable sex to rapid population growth, and you see rapid population growth as a problem, therefore it is implied you see sex being pleasurable as a problem. It just struck me as A=B, B=C so A=C.

    3) I understand what you mean. However I always saw it not as fear for death, but rather acceptance and realization of it, coupled with a desire to leave something behind. Someone who fears death would rather try to do something to prevent it, instead of think beyond his own death.

    4) If you're referring to your country only (or let's say, countries with similar policies), then it's not an argument as for why overpopulation is a thing. In fact, countries where tax reductions apply for having children are usually countries where there's an aging demographic and not enough births to support the aging population. So it is kind of a response to a certain kind of under-population (of young people). This clearly shows that underpopulation and overpopulation are localized problems, further supporting my point about it being a managing issue, not an actual numbers kind of issue.

    5) If it didn't make you feel any good... Would you still do it?

    There is no internet in medieval times Also, things would probably return to our current civilization scheme anyway.
    Ohhh...I like you.

    1) The difference between overcoming and suppressing, is that to overcome means to succeed in dealing with a problem or difficulty, whereas to suppress means to forcibly put an end to. It is true that perhaps your way of overcoming an obstacle is to forcibly put an end to it, but in my opinion, if you want to overcome something, you don't necessarily have to forcibly put an end to it; simply develop the willingness to learn and exercise the wisdom of when to let your instincts assist you; following your head, and when to ignore your instincts in favor of something else; following your heart.

    2) To equate something means to consider something the same as, or equivalent to another; I don't think I said sex being pleasurable is the same thing as overpopulation, and my apologies if I wasn't clear enough about that; it just seems to me like a logical conclusion that it could be a contributing factor as to why there's almost two billion more people on the planet than there was little more than a decade ago haha; among many other variables, I strongly suspect.

    3) That sounds right to me!

    4) Sorry; I didn't mean to imply tax deductions was any kind of argument as for why overpopulation is a thing; I simply suggested that it could be a contributing factor; among many other variables to be considered. You probably make an excellent point in legislation in this regard being connected to not enough births to support the aging population; an under-population of young people of sorts, despite there being nearly eight billion people on this planet; I think that's even more than Spock's home world of Vulcan! ...If I may be so bold to suggest...but just maybe the "aging population" needs to support themselves instead of relying on "new births" until such a time that they can't anymore then...well..."go out on the ice" as the Eskimos back in Alaska would say hahaha. Seriously; once the elderly become a burden to the rest of their tribe, they just up and decide to launch themselves off to sea on a floating chunk of ice, to eventually die with what they perceive to be honor, and dignity...it's actually kind of beautiful, in a bit of a sad way.

    5) I'd like to think I'd still do it, but it would probably be a lot harder without that warm and fuzzy feeling I get from it haha. I guess if I decided that caring about the world around me was causing me too much grief that I, for whatever reason, was unable to cope with, causing me to give up on humanity, then I'd probably sink into a pretty deep depression; I wouldn't feel as much purpose in life, and would start to isolate myself, in my own little world with no thought to the needs of others; just worrying about myself and my own needs. I'd probably feel bad for not interfering in a situation where I could've helped someone, but at risk to my own momentary well-being. I'd ask myself "what if" for quite some time afterwards, and feel guilty and responsible for what happened, because I was too self-concerned to do anything to try to stop it. ...I don't know; that just doesn't sound like any kind of life to live for me personally; all that regret, low inhibitions and virtual uselessness to my fellow brothers and sisters. I likely would end up not being able to take it anymore, and start doing what I felt was right, even if it meant I may suffer negative consequences for it. It all goes back to having the wisdom to know the difference between the times when one should follow either their head or their heart.

    PS: You are absolutely correct; there is no internet in medieval times; it would be a sad thing for many people to not have the capability of carrying the virtual sum total of all human knowledge at their fingertips wherever they may be. You're also right on the money when you say things would probably return to our current civilization anyway. This is nothing new; it's happened multiple times throughout history. Humanity begins to rise, reaches a peak, then it falls, then it rebuilds itself, sometimes stronger than before, before it inevitably falls again. It's like the heartbeat of Human evolution; kind of beautiful, in a divinely chaotic sense.

    --Sollomyn
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 10 Mar 2019 at 10:34.

  3. #23
    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    1)
    Same here; pro-choice...in the sense I believe people should have the right to choose for themselves whether or not to have children; I don't feel it is the Government's place to say one CAN'T have any children (or NEEDS to have children). I'm not an advocate of abortion though; I personally feel that attacking human life is wrong, and that if one doesn't want a baby, they shouldn't have unprotected sex; not kill the baby when it starts growing inside them after unprotected sex.
    You have every right to your opinion and how to conduct yourself in order to abide by it, same as any other citizen. None of us here have any right or business saying "people should..."; only that "I should...". Example: I'm very old-school about things that surprise many folks. I wouldn't live with someone I'm not married to. But in no way would I attempt to instill that kind of conduct on anyone else, so long as they're within the laws of the land. It's MY right and MY business to live MY life according to MY values. YOU may live according to YOURS, under the general umbrella of the afore-mentioned laws of the land. The topic of abortion has been known to lead to a lot of problems on this and other forums, so I'm not going to address it specifically other than to say if the government decides that life with rights begins at conception, I'll expect Medicare at 64 & 3 mos.

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  4. #24

    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
    You have every right to your opinion and how to conduct yourself in order to abide by it, same as any other citizen. None of us here have any right or business saying "people should..."; only that "I should...". Example: I'm very old-school about things that surprise many folks. I wouldn't live with someone I'm not married to. But in no way would I attempt to instill that kind of conduct on anyone else, so long as they're within the laws of the land. It's MY right and MY business to live MY life according to MY values. YOU may live according to YOURS, under the general umbrella of the afore-mentioned laws of the land. The topic of abortion has been known to lead to a lot of problems on this and other forums, so I'm not going to address it specifically other than to say if the government decides that life with rights begins at conception, I'll expect Medicare at 64 & 3 mos.
    Hmmm...I don't know. Having the right to suggest a potentially better solution for social issues to other people is kind of the basis for progression as a more enlightened species; if none of us ever spoke up about the things that bothered us, we would probably all end up exploding and shouting at each other instead of having healthy debates; suppression doesn't work out too well in a lot of cases.

    Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything else you said!


    --Sollomyn
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 10 Mar 2019 at 10:43.

  5. #25
    Member Pythagoras's Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Marriage, sexual interaction, reproduction, and having families is at a fifty to sixty year low, becareful what you wish for.


    Now we're becoming a society of isolated, lonely, indifferent, and apathetic individuals, these sorts of things have huge destructive social consequences for society as a whole.
    Last edited by Pythagoras; 04 Jun 2019 at 21:31.
    "When Zeus was setting all things in order there fell from him drops of sacred blood, and from them, as they say, arose the race of men."- Flavius Claudius Iulianus Augustus



  6. #26
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Pythagoras View Post
    these sorts of things have huge destructive social consequences for society as a whole.
    We don't really know that.

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  7. #27
    Member Pythagoras's Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean R. R. View Post
    We don't really know that.
    I'll have to disagree with that statement.
    "When Zeus was setting all things in order there fell from him drops of sacred blood, and from them, as they say, arose the race of men."- Flavius Claudius Iulianus Augustus



  8. #28
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Pythagoras View Post
    I'll have to disagree with that statement.
    I mean, sure, you can disagree, but that doesn't make it any less of an assumption.

    I'm really curious to see where humanity is headed. In times of crisis, the stronger and smarter rise up, and the true potential of resilience of humans shine. Self-interest is IMHO a better motivator for survival and advancement than "empathy" or altruistic cooperation.

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  9. #29
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean R. R. View Post
    I mean, sure, you can disagree, but that doesn't make it any less of an assumption.

    I'm really curious to see where humanity is headed. In times of crisis, the stronger and smarter rise up, and the true potential of resilience of humans shine. Self-interest is IMHO a better motivator for survival and advancement than "empathy" or altruistic cooperation.
    Common error.

    50 people practicing empathy and cooperation can defeat a single selfish individual.

    Strength comes in a variety of forms, one of them is "community."
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

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  10. #30
    Loud Mouth Heka's Avatar
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    Re: Humans should stop producing

    First thought: Australia doesnt have social security numbers. Sure we have other things, but not in the same "ownership" sense mentioned. Your name and date of birth are usually enough, not some special number assigned at birth or whatever (I dont actually know how it workss).

    Second thought: I have long been an advocate for a 'license to breed'. I mean hell, we need a license to drive a car, and need to be a certain age to be able to drink etc, and if you do those things outside the regulations, there is punishment. Now I'm no legislator, but imagine a license to breed. There would be an appropriate age limit. There would be restrictions placed on inappropriate behaviours (drug conviction = revoking license for a period of time). There should be fines for breaking the law (no having babies for the baby bonus, instead, disincentives to breed). I think this could create positive implications on issues relating to child sex crimes too. Of course this goes hand in hand with good education and free birth control. And those things should come first. But anyway.

    As a well educated, married, aging (lol yeah but) woman, who has had two miscarriages since I was last here, I'm not saying everyone shouldnt have the choice, but thay the choice should be a well informed one. Yes, mistakes happen (or dont), but imagine if everyone knew how a womans menstrual cycle worked, and took precautions around it so they didnt get fined. Yes it's an extrinsic system, but our current extrinsic systems reward births. Breeding in itself isnt special (coming from someone who cant breed btw). Being educated enough to know what environment you're bringing a child into, and having the right understanding of the implications for you, the child, etc, should be a core part of the license to breed.

    Of course there will be f**** ups, but imagine if anyone could drive and no one was policing it?
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