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Thread: They Paved Paradise

  1. #11
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Juniper View Post
    I think your anger is misdirected. It's not the consumers you need to be mad at. It's the corporations that shelf good new, green, alternative solutions after buying up those patents, so they can continue to rake in the millions they make off of outdated, destructive, and diminishing resource reliant technology.
    Hmm... I still think the consumer is to "blame". No consumer, no corporation. So even if I don't agree with Sollomyn's motivations, I certainly agree mass boycott is useful against corporations. However you need to accept and realize that not everyone feels like you do when it comes to ecology, and that some people are perfectly fine with corporation's actions.

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  2. #12

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by volcaniclastic View Post
    How could you possibly boycott pavement? Are you just not gonna drive on the roads or walk on the sidewalks anymore?
    Sure, why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juniper View Post
    I think your anger is misdirected. It's not the consumers you need to be mad at. It's the corporations that shelf good new, green, alternative solutions after buying up those patents, so they can continue to rake in the millions they make off of outdated, destructive, and diminishing resource reliant technology.
    I think I'm mad at both consumers and corporations; if it weren't for the consumers, the corporations wouldn't exist, and if it weren't for the corporations, consumers wouldn't be manipulated. I'm more mad though perhaps at the societal and cultural norms that have evolved, not so much the people; if it weren't for the norms that have evolved, people would be just fine.

    I get a lot more mad at ideas and concepts than I do at the people who come up with them; not really sure why. Might all just boil down to the fact I don't believe in free will, so I don't actually blame anyone for anything; it's the circumstances that are unfortunate haha.
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 14 Mar 2019 at 08:36.

  3. #13
    Kick Ass Little Crow Corvus's Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    There's no point to this topic. We have been using stone to produce roads and other structures for thousands of years. There has never been a point when humanity has not altered their environment to suit their needs. It is not the fault of the modern age. The Romans covered their empire in roads that still exist, Paris was densely constructed even by the middle ages, the Nahuatl were burning and clear cutting for agriculture since the beginning; we continuous have manipulated our environment using the most efficient and advanced technology available to us. There's certainly a debate and points which could be made, however an argument that amounts to 'civilization is bad' with no tangible support does not a debate make.
    世の中に潜み落下した「アレ」はねえか? 誰が書き換える 世界の汚れは?
    Do you have 'that' which lies dormant within society? Who can overwrite it, the filth in the world?


  4. #14

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    There's no point to this topic.
    How come?


    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    We have been using stone to produce roads and other structures for thousands of years. There has never been a point when humanity has not altered their environment to suit their needs. It is not the fault of the modern age. The Romans covered their empire in roads that still exist, Paris was densely constructed even by the middle ages, the Nahuatl were burning and clear cutting for agriculture since the beginning; we continuous have manipulated our environment using the most efficient and advanced technology available to us.
    We've also been killing each other off in retaliation towards one another for thousands of years; should we just keep doing that, too; not even bother trying to change things or be better?


    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    There's certainly a debate and points which could be made, however an argument that amounts to 'civilization is bad' with no tangible support does not a debate make.
    My argument is not that civilization is bad; quite the contrary civilization is good. Hurting the Earth is bad. The two can coexist in harmony with neither one getting hurt.
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 14 Mar 2019 at 14:38.

  5. #15
    Silver Member Bartmanhomer's Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    There's no point to this topic. We have been using the stone to produce roads and other structures for thousands of years. There has never been a point when humanity has not altered their environment to suit their needs. It is not the fault of the modern age. The Romans covered their empire in roads that still exist, Paris was densely constructed even by the middle ages, the Nahuatl were burning and clear-cutting for agriculture since the beginning; we continuous have manipulated our environment using the most efficient and advanced technology available to us. There's certainly a debate and points which could be made, however, an argument that amounts to 'civilization is bad' with no tangible support does not a debate make.
    I agree. There's no point to this topic at all. They have been paving roads for a massive number of years and I really don't see what's so debatable about it.

  6. #16

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I agree. There's no point to this topic at all. They have been paving roads for a massive number of years and I really don't see what's so debatable about it.
    The Earth has a natural cycle in which water evaporates from the oceans into the atmosphere, and falls back down to the surface in the form of rain. Rain helps keep the plants green and plentiful, and the soil moist, and fertile. When the plants are green and plentiful, they produce oxygen, and a renewable source of food. When there's exposed soil, there are more plants and more green, meaning more fresh air, and more food.

    ...Unless of course said soil is covered over with millions and millions and millions of square miles of asphalt, concrete, and pavement.

    What happens then, is that the rain falls onto the pavement, and runs along it, sometimes for miles, collecting all manner of garbage and toxic materials along it's journey, before draining off somewhere; sometimes into a local creek, or a beautiful lake, or perhaps the ocean. More often though, the runoff goes down a manmade drainage hole. Which then gets fed into one of the local creeks, lakes, or ocean. Aside from all the animals it's killing, more importantly, it's contaminating water sources and endangering nearby wilderness areas. Everything's connected; what doesn't seem like much on the surface can have a butterfly/snowball effect that could be unprecendented and destroy the world as we know it.

    If it's too early to start debating it, when should we start debating it? When the environmental changes start getting to be too much to handle? When the whole Earth is just a giant mass of concrete? By the time either of those happen, it'll be too late to do anything to stop it.

  7. #17
    Silver Member Bartmanhomer's Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    The Earth has a natural cycle in which water evaporates from the oceans into the atmosphere, and falls back down to the surface in the form of rain. Rain helps keep the plants green and plentiful, and the soil moist, and fertile. When the plants are green and plentiful, they produce oxygen and a renewable source of food. When there's exposed soil, there are more plants and more green, meaning more fresh air, and more food.

    ...Unless of course said soil is covered over with millions and millions and millions of square miles of asphalt, concrete, and pavement.

    What happens then, is that the rain falls onto the pavement, and runs along it, sometimes for miles, collecting all manner of garbage and toxic materials along it's a journey, before draining off somewhere; sometimes into a local creek, or a beautiful lake, or perhaps the ocean. More often though, the runoff goes down a manmade drainage hole. Which then gets fed into one of the local creeks, lakes, or ocean. Aside from all the animals it's killing, more importantly, it's contaminating water sources and endangering nearby wilderness areas. Everything's connected; what doesn't seem like much on the surface can have a butterfly/snowball effect that could be unprecedented and destroy the world as we know it.

    If it's too early to start debating it, when should we start debating it? When do the environmental changes start getting to be too much to handle? When the whole Earth is just a giant mass of concrete? By the time either of those happens, it'll be too late to do anything to stop it.
    That's a very reasonable argument. I'll give you that. But still, people are still paving roads and buildings modernize today society and there really nothing to do to stop it.

  8. #18

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    That's a very reasonable argument. I'll give you that. But still, people are still paving roads and buildings modernize today society and there really nothing to do to stop it.
    That's how I kind of feel too, but it makes me feel too depressed to accept it haha. I honestly don't know if we'd be able to stop it, or if all efforts to do so would indeed end up being futile. I do know though that it can only get worse if no resistance is shown. Boycotting would be a traditional way of going about it in our society; if nobody uses a product anymore, it makes sense that eventually that product would no longer need to be manufactured; the real problems lie in first convincing people that they can live full, rich, beautiful, wonderful lives without any pavement. Then convincing them to start living a pavement-free lifestyle, gradually, little by little. Then getting enough of the population living completely pavement-free lifestyles, proving that it's a perfectly happy life for others who may be still clinging to the concrete spires of their paved jungles; showing them that perhaps a brighter, happier life does exist within the mystical forest; leading by example. Finally, once everyone has transitioned to living among nature, with their feet actually connected to the Earth once again, we could all go about demolishing the concrete structures of our past, fully opening up the Earth once again for the first time in eons to let her breathe at long last.

    ....I know; it sounds impossible haha.

    PS: This is assuming I'm correct in that a Pagan Mafia is too much to hope for hahahaha.

    --Sollomyn
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 14 Mar 2019 at 16:50.

  9. #19
    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Personally I think the very title of the thread is a deception. They Paved Paradise. Nature never was a paradise, left to its own devise Nature will wreck havoc and run amuck. I've seen section's of the landscape that have chocked itself into near death where vines have a stranglehold on the tree's and broken them down. Yet just a few years prior no vines existed at all in that very area. Inversely, area's where the ground was once lush and green but flooding caused river beds to shift and creek beds to go dry and left the area basically dead and dry. Area's where overpopulation of various wildlife has caused over grazing and starvation that has nothing to do with mankind's presence in the area.

    That's not to say mankind hasn't had a negative impact upon the environment. Clearly our weather patterns in area's have been disrupted by pollution. The hydro cycle has been impacted by the amount of cement & asphalt that effects the discharge of water across the landscape. Many seasonal waterways are either removed, blocked or redirected and other full time waterways have been manipulated as well. Many traditional flood zones blocked or in some cases forgotten about as rivers that used to wander have been prevented from doing so until massive flooding allows them to do so again.

    The biggest issue I think is many people have this idea of nature being both a paradise and peaceful and it truthfully is neither. That is almost a nostalgic & romantic view of the natural world that remains from the last century. Their is a beauty to the forest and nature but it usually ends just off the beaten pathway and marked trail, about the same point where civilization ends.
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  10. #20
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    Hurting the Earth is bad.
    We cannot "hurt" Earth, all we do is change it. Some argue this change is detrimental to our survival, but that's about it.

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