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Thread: They Paved Paradise

  1. #21
    Moderator Azvanna's Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Hey Sollomyn, I'm not in debate mode as I think you actually just want to discuss this issue. That's fine. When you say you are feeling really sad about the state of the planet, I want to let you know you're not alone. A few years back, I felt real genuine grief and anxiety over climate change and felt really powerless to do anything about it. I felt really silly about it at the time because everybody else around me seemed so unconcerned. This webpage https://www.isthishowyoufeel.com/ helped me to feel not so alone. Also it helped me to feel a little more optimistic about our planet's future. I also watched the documentary Before the Flood (which was really good imo).
    Overall, I feel that consumers DO need to consider their choices more carefully. However, it's very difficult to make necessary changes when our infrastructure is not equipped to deal with those changes (eg renewable energy, battery operated cars etc).

    Personally, I'm struggling to figure out what I can do on a personal level to really effect change. Beyond putting solar panels on my roof and reducing waste, I'm a bit at a loss really. Have you made any changes to the way you live to try to negate your feelings of regret and sadness?



    May we have this thread moved from debate section to an appropriate discussion board?

  2. #22

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    Personally I think the very title of the thread is a deception. They Paved Paradise. Nature never was a paradise, left to its own devise Nature will wreck havoc and run amuck.
    That's one aspect of Nature; like any mother, she may provide for her children, but that doesn't mean she can't become, angry, violent and destructive when she's put under too much pressure. This is why I feel rebuilding our relationship with Nature is so important; it's a partnership, one that we've been neglecting, and making a big mess of, and we're probably about to get a proverbial hairbrush thrown at us from dear old mum hahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    I've seen section's of the landscape that have chocked itself into near death where vines have a stranglehold on the tree's and broken them down. Yet just a few years prior no vines existed at all in that very area. Inversely, area's where the ground was once lush and green but flooding caused river beds to shift and creek beds to go dry and left the area basically dead and dry. Area's where overpopulation of various wildlife has caused over grazing and starvation that has nothing to do with mankind's presence in the area.
    In the case of the choking vines, it is true that forested areas eventually become overgrown shrambles, but this is hardly a bad thing; quite the contrary, it's a beautiful and necessary thing. You see, when a forest grows to a wild, a purging fire is both necessary and inevitable; I learned this during my four years or so as a wildland firefighter haha. Huge swaths of the Alaskan landscape are destroyed and blackened as far as the eye can see in some areas every single year. On the surface, it seems like a dead horizon. Just beneath the surface though are creatures and insects that could almost be said to be indigenous to wild fires, like the terrifying stumpfu... ...I'm not going to say it's full name on here, because it's exceedingly vulgar haha; I don't even think it's what they're actually called either, but it's what we call them, because they lay their eggs in burned out stumps; giant black flying insects with two stingers on it's butt; one giant black stinger and one short orange stinger; one of our guys got stung by one of them on his testicle; it swelled up to the size of a grapefruit; you could see it through his nomex trousers; he had to get a helivac out of there. Regardless, this blackened post-apocalyptic scenery will soon become a lush, green garden once again, thanks to the fire having made the surrounding soil among the most fertile soil on Earth. Nature always corrects itself eventually; whether it's overgrown, or not grown-in enough, or otherwise suppressed.

    And in regards to the population of the animals, that's why hunting is so important; if we never hunted bears or wolves for example, then all of the animals that make up their traditional prey would end up getting eaten into extinction, then the predators would have to find a new source of food. Maybe us! Hahaha. Which is why hunting is such an important part of our relationship with Nature; to help keep a balance throughout the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sean R. R. View Post
    We cannot "hurt" Earth, all we do is change it. Some argue this change is detrimental to our survival, but that's about it.
    Hurt is a type of change; if someone punched me in the face, you can bet the bone structure is going to be changed a little haha; I'd argue that particular change is detrimental to at least my quality of living haha. Change isn't always good, but it's always inevitable; I'd just rather humanity do as little of the changing as it can; Mother Nature will change things all around us all on her own haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvanna View Post

    May we have this thread moved from debate section to an appropriate discussion board?
    Thanks for the link; and yes, we should move this thread to a more appropriate discussion board; my apologies for putting it in the wrong location in the first place.


    --Sollomyn
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 14 Mar 2019 at 22:32.

  3. #23
    Moderator Azvanna's Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Is everyone else missing the reference to the Joni Mitchel song here? Big Yellow Taxi? 'They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot' The song is not calling the wilderness paradise, it's a tongue-in-cheek name for our intentions to create 'paradise'.. things suited to human convenience.

    Personally, I'm into convenience. I like being able to go to a supermarket and work for pleasure only in my garden. I like having my air-con and access to my hospital.. all the conveniences that go with modern life. The question is, how much of this do I have to give up for the health of our planet?

    It does make me really sad when I look at pictures like this: Hong-Kong-lights-1.jpg
    Most people look at that and think it's beautiful. I look at that and I'm horrified at the destruction and pollution. I'm awed at the capacity we have to re-create our surroundings, but it's heartbreaking to think that the type of processes that we use to achieve this is devestating our world. It's changing the landscape of our planet forever.

    I have two friends working in construction who are right now addressing development methods. I really hope they succeed!
    Last edited by Azvanna; 14 Mar 2019 at 23:58.

  4. #24

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvanna View Post
    Is everyone else missing the reference to the Joni Mitchel song here? Big Yellow Taxi? 'They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot' The song is not calling the wilderness paradise, it's a tongue-in-cheek name for our intentions to create 'paradise'.. things suited to human convenience.
    Haha; I love that song! I also like pop-culture references hehe. The main inspiration for the title though comes from my childhood when I wanted to be a superhero, and naturally picked up a book called "50 Simple Things You Can Do to Save the Earth" by John Javna, Sophie Javna, and Jesse Javna; I forget where exactly in the book it is located, but there's a chapter in it called "They Paved Paradise", and that was where I first learned about the dangers of pavement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvanna View Post
    Personally, I'm into convenience. I like being able to go to a supermarket and work for pleasure only in my garden. I like having my air-con and access to my hospital.. all the conveniences that go with modern life. The question is, how much of this do I have to give up for the health of our planet?
    Indeed; I'm really into convenience too, as much as I may want to change my lifestyle. I'm thinking that the key is to try seeing it less like I'm giving up ease and convenience, and more like trading it for a different kind of ease and convenience. For me, I have a lot of trouble in typical work environments and social settings; I'm just kind of awkward, and according to a free-doctor from the Native American health center provided to me by Uncle Sam, I'm at a "high risk" for "maybe" being on the Autism spectrum. I really didn't like his lack of commitment or reassurance hahaha; I do a lot better with "yes" or "no" answers, with some confidence behind them haha. You get what you pay for I guess, (or don't pay for, in this case haha). Anyway, for whatever reason, a typical lifestyle is harder for me than a more traditional pioneering type of lifestyle; I grew up that way, and ever since moving to the city and the Lower 48 in general, I have been struggling to fit in with normal society; I'm probably going to end up homeless anyway haha. I might as well get a jump-start on things by getting enthusiastic about the idea hahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvanna View Post
    It does make me really sad when I look at pictures like this: Hong-Kong-lights-1.jpg
    Most people look at that and think it's beautiful. I look at that and I'm horrified at the destruction and pollution. I'm awed at the capacity we have to re-create our surroundings, but it's heartbreaking to think that the type of processes that we use to achieve this is devestating our world. It's changing the landscape of our planet forever.
    Indeed; like a concrete shackle slowly encasing more and more of Mother Earth. I look at that picture, and my first reaction is sadness; my second reaction is a mixture of shame and terror; I see the Earth as a living organism; if you try to cage just about any living organism, it's going to try to fight back somehow. We humans have become parasites to our host, and it's just a matter of time before it dispatches the antibodies to come snuff us out like the disease we've become...I guess that's my own version of having "the fear of God" in me haha; fear Mother Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvanna View Post
    I have two friends working in construction who are right now addressing development methods. I really hope they succeed!
    Awesome; hope they come up with something good! I've been looking into underground homes and adobe homes for quite a while; I'm thinking that's probably one of the best ways to help preserve the Earth while living in modernized-comfort. Adobe homes are naturally insulated as well; snow helps keep the interior warm in the winter, while the green grass and vegetation help keep the interior nice and cool on a hot summer. Constructed properly, the home also does zero damage to the Earth, and it's soil still gets touched by the rain to keep it fresh and green; I'd like my dream-house to double as a garden; probably just planting things which will grow naturally in the environment with little to no maintenance or interference by me.

    I also suppose a huge inspiration for my re-newed interests, as nerdy as it may sound, would have to be James Cameron's movie Avatar from 2009; I wished Earth were more like that haha; that we could live in harmony with nature, and thus actually have a more vibrant and abundant culture because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azvanna View Post
    Personally, I'm struggling to figure out what I can do on a personal level to really effect change. Beyond putting solar panels on my roof and reducing waste, I'm a bit at a loss really. Have you made any changes to the way you live to try to negate your feelings of regret and sadness?
    Same here; aside from running away to the hills, I'm kind of at a loss as to how to lower my footprint. I currently live in a small rental house with my 66 year old mother; being it's a rental, she doesn't want to invest any money into making it more eco-friendly, (I suggested putting a garden on the roof so that at least from the air the ground on the property would look a little greener.) We could start recycling though, and using cloth shopping bags. She's the only one with a car and a driver's license though, so I'm pretty much stuck at the house all day. She's usually off partying with her friends; brings by some TV dinners every other day or so. I feel like a wilting flower. Slowly starting to make some more positive changes in my life though; starting with quitting smoking; that'll cut back on the amount of garbage I produce at least, not to mention contribute to my overall mood and not make me such a grumpy-gus.


    --Sollomyn
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 15 Mar 2019 at 01:30.

  5. #25
    PF God-Empress Juniper's Avatar
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    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Thread moved.
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  6. #26

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Juniper View Post
    Thread moved.
    Thanks.

  7. #27

    Re: They Paved Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    ...I don't even think it's what they're actually called either, but it's what we call them, because they lay their eggs in burned out stumps; giant black flying insects with two stingers on it's butt; one giant black stinger and one short orange stinger...
    I just found out what that bug is called; here's a link to some information about it and some photos: https://www.whatsthatbug.com/2010/08...p-from-alaska/

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