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Thread: So is this really blackface?

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    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    So is this really blackface?

    Nailing my colours to the mast before I start - I dislike blackface intensely, along with Golliwogs and all the things people try to excuse as just a product of their time. However, sometimes I see something that really does make me wonder about people's perception:

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...hinks-15980804

    The men in the photo were miners. They weren't dressing up. They'd gone for a pint before going home. There were no pithead baths where I live (and the photo was taken not far from here) in those days. The much on their faces was literally killing them. This is not a picture of white insensitivity, although it might be one of injustice towards the working man. (Incidentally, Paul Robeson was so loved in the Welsh Valleys, he was made an honorary Welshman).

    I just thought I would share and see what people think.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


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    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    The PC crowd is going overboard I think. I live in West Virginia and we have quite a few photo's in this state's history of Coal Miner's with coal encrusted faces. Occasionally the paper's will run historical article's and you'll get some jerk making comments of a similar nature about "Black Face" who has absolutely no idea what a coal face actually is. Nor do they have any idea what black lung is either. That or what a coal disaster is like when the families are gathered around waiting to find out if their loved ones are going to be brought out from under the ground alive or not.

    Sad part is those photo's are not just of men but also of young boys many times. People outside of the area do not know about the hold the coal companies had and in many ways still hold upon the region. Nor do they know about the men who still go down into the depths of the earth to mine coal and come out every day covered in coal dust and black faced. The boys don't work it no more but the men sure do. Even with washing facilities it's still a dirty job.

    Far to often I think people are looking for something to be offended at. There is a difference between having a dirty face and "Black" face but people are to lazy to actually research that difference.
    Last edited by monsno_leedra; 18 Mar 2019 at 05:39.
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    Indeed. I kind of wished dueling was still a thing like back in the wild west days, or the gladiator times. If you weren't willing to do battle over it, then whatever it was must not have been that offensive after all haha. That'd also help keep other people in check, too; being more careful not to offend other people, lest they get challenged to a fight to the death haha. I swear, the amount of people who get offended at the drop of a hat would plummet drastically pretty much overnight hahahaha.

    Sigh....I miss those days.
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 18 Mar 2019 at 09:31.

  4. #4
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    Indeed. I kind of wished dueling was still a thing like back in the wild west days, or the gladiator times. If you weren't willing to do battle over it, then whatever it was must not have been that offensive after all haha. That'd also help keep other people in check, too; being more careful not to offend other people, lest they get challenged to a fight to the death haha. I swear, the amount of people who get offended at the drop of a hat would plummet drastically pretty much overnight hahahaha.

    Sigh....I miss those days.
    I don't think it merits a duel really. And a willingness to do battle doesn't really show us how important an offence is. Some people take offence (and even kill) over the most trivial matters. As for gladiators, they were slaves - not free to decide whether or not they wanted to fight.

    In my view, the complaint referred to in my original post was problematic because the person who complained did not really understand what the picture showed. Given that I live in the area, I know only too well what the picture showed, and also its subtext.

    BTW - why do you keep writing hahaha at the end of your sentences?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    The PC crowd is going overboard I think. I live in West Virginia and we have quite a few photo's in this state's history of Coal Miner's with coal encrusted faces. Occasionally the paper's will run historical article's and you'll get some jerk making comments of a similar nature about "Black Face" who has absolutely no idea what a coal face actually is. Nor do they have any idea what black lung is either. That or what a coal disaster is like when the families are gathered around waiting to find out if their loved ones are going to be brought out from under the ground alive or not.

    Sad part is those photo's are not just of men but also of young boys many times. People outside of the area do not know about the hold the coal companies had and in many ways still hold upon the region. Nor do they know about the men who still go down into the depths of the earth to mine coal and come out every day covered in coal dust and black faced. The boys don't work it no more but the men sure do. Even with washing facilities it's still a dirty job.

    Far to often I think people are looking for something to be offended at. There is a difference between having a dirty face and "Black" face but people are to lazy to actually research that difference.
    I felt that the WalesOnline's letter to the complainant tried to be understanding while putting their own point across. We don't have coal mines here in Wales any more (Margaret Thatcher killed the industry back in the 1980's) but the legacy of what happened, along with disasters such as Aberfan (where a primary school was 'drowned' beneath coal slurry, and over 140 children killed) are still very raw.

    My father-in-law was a miner who died, still a young man, from the dust, many years ago.
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  5. #5
    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    I felt that the WalesOnline's letter to the complainant tried to be understanding while putting their own point across. We don't have coal mines here in Wales any more (Margaret Thatcher killed the industry back in the 1980's) but the legacy of what happened, along with disasters such as Aberfan (where a primary school was 'drowned' beneath coal slurry, and over 140 children killed) are still very raw.

    My father-in-law was a miner who died, still a young man, from the dust, many years ago.
    I did think that WalesOnline wrote a good letter in response to the person. The sad part though is that they had to write it in the first place IMHO. If the person doing the objecting truly new what "Black Face" was and how it was used then there never would have been an objection raised about the photo. But that is Politically Correct Butt Hurt run amuck in my personal opinion and seeking something to be offended by.

    It's sad that even with all the advances the dust still claims a lot of lives today in the mines around the world. Luck wise we haven't had any major explosions or cave in's in recent years in West Virginia or neighboring states that have claimed a lot of lives or left miners trapped. Yet still they happen and only a few of them make headlines around the world when they do happen.
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    Silver Member anubisa's Avatar
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    The PC crowd is going overboard I think. I live in West Virginia and we have quite a few photo's in this state's history of Coal Miner's with coal encrusted faces. Occasionally the paper's will run historical article's and you'll get some jerk making comments of a similar nature about "Black Face" who has absolutely no idea what a coal face actually is. Nor do they have any idea what black lung is either. That or what a coal disaster is like when the families are gathered around waiting to find out if their loved ones are going to be brought out from under the ground alive or not.

    Sad part is those photo's are not just of men but also of young boys many times. People outside of the area do not know about the hold the coal companies had and in many ways still hold upon the region. Nor do they know about the men who still go down into the depths of the earth to mine coal and come out every day covered in coal dust and black faced. The boys don't work it no more but the men sure do. Even with washing facilities it's still a dirty job.

    Far to often I think people are looking for something to be offended at. There is a difference between having a dirty face and "Black" face but people are to lazy to actually research that difference.
    I'm a West Virginian too Monsno and people can make such a big frigging deal out of nothing. Miners spend all day in the coal working and someone is going to say they're insensitive? It's dirty damned job. Try it for a day if you're so frigging offended.
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    Bronze Member Bartmanhomer's Avatar
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by anubisa View Post
    I'm a West Virginian too Monsno and people can make such a big frigging deal out of nothing. Miners spend all day in the coal working and someone is going to say they're insensitive? It's dirty damned job. Try it for a day if you're so frigging offended.
    I agree. People get so easily offended about everything.

  8. #8

    Re: So is this really blackface?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    I don't think it merits a duel really. And a willingness to do battle doesn't really show us how important an offence is. Some people take offence (and even kill) over the most trivial matters. As for gladiators, they were slaves - not free to decide whether or not they wanted to fight.
    I don't think it merits a duel either; and indeed, gladiators may not have been the best example; Wild West was a better example. Although to be fair, not all gladiators were slaves, but surely the vast majority of them were slaves, (or condemned criminals), but I don't know if we can say every one of them was; there may have been gladiators who fought for different reasons. I suppose the idea came to mind, (and comes to mind just about every time I see an altercation between two people), that it'd be better if we could just take those two knuckle heads and put 'em in a ring together and let them fight it out. I think that's a contributing factor to the decline of humanity; like little kids fighting on the playground; that used to be okay, but now a kid's whole life will be ruined for getting into a fight at school. Mine was. Kids aren't allowed to be kids anymore, and people aren't allowed to express anger in the most natural ways that humans express anger. So they restrain themselves, and keep themselves under control, holding in all the pent up aggression until it starts boiling into rage. Then a kid decides to bring a gun to school and shoot everyone, or a driver starts mowing people down in his car in a fit of road rage. If we were still allowed to challenge each other to a duel though, a lot of those tensions would have been able to be relieved long before they become a toxic build up in someone's system, causing them to explode and go on a killing spree haha.

    Oh, and I usually type "haha" when I'm laughing, because I don't like using texting words like "omg" or "lol" or "brb" because...well...I'm just not like that! Hahaha.

    And it helps alleviate any tensions. Whatever I say or do, I try to say or do it with a smile.

    Last edited by Sollomyn; 18 Mar 2019 at 20:53.

  9. #9
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    The myth of the "Wild West" is just that - a myth created by fiction writers. The history of those times tell a different story.

    Gladiatorial combat was institutes by Julius Caesar as a way of entertaining the "mob" by watching soldiers defeated and captured in combat forced to fight against their fellows. Lots of laughs in that.
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  10. #10
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: So is this really blackface?

    Gladiators were slaves, either as Corbyn says, because they were captured soldiers, but also criminals and even people who got themselves into debt! They really had no choice. And of course the problem with this theme is 'who is going to fight?' The person who complained and the editor of Wales Online? It doesn't seem a good way to deal with things. I don't believe fisticuffs is the way to settle things, although I do often feel that warmongers like Trump might be a little less enthusiastic if they had ever had to fight themselves (or send their sons for that matter.)

    The real problem is the professional army - when there was a citizens army and ordinary people were expected to go and fight (conscription) then there was less of a gung-ho attitude towards war. That said, some people always managed to wiggle out of serving and send others instead.

    My real beef with the subject of the original post was the complainants refusal to understand that there is a HUGE different between dressing up to mimick others and basically make fun of them, and going for a pint in a pub after a long, back breaking shift down the pit.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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